the Air Vent

Because the world needs another opinion

Science be Damned

Posted by Jeff Id on March 17, 2010

Ok, the math post which seems to suck hours of time isn’t done yet.  It’s not even that amazing, except that it’s fun to try and improve a temperature series.  I found this on line from a link in email, I don’t agree with some of Lord Monkton’s science, it seems to me that he’s got a higher calling the same way as the leftist scientists do, but with that said, I’m a huge fan of his.  Advocacy and denial are two sides of the same coin, however the denial side is all about getting government the heck out of our pockets and that is  a big deal.   The advocates are far more numerous, or at least they were.

Lord Monkton is moderated in his views on warming to within the bounds of most science though which helps do a post on him.  In this short video, he warns of the next steps of the future world overlords.  For the new guys here, this isn’t some kind of goofy fantasy by a crazed conservative. The Copenhagenites took the time to write it down and as far as it reads to me, they  really are intending a global unelected government with powers of taxation, limitation and enforcement.

The original copenhagen proposal is here – http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/un-fccc-copenhagen-2009.pdf

Someone did a nice post on it here – All Governments are Created Equal?

Monkton is warning us that the push is coming again and climate science doesn’t care what the data says, my belief is that they will discuss the climategate corruption (in incredibly false terms).  This is not the kind of movement that truth or justice can stop.  They will exist forever  – even if they get everything they want, they will find something else.  Anyway, you already know my views, however this whole deal is nothing compared to the health care bribery going on.

I’ll try to get the science post up for the morning.

20 Responses to “Science be Damned”

  1. RK said

    Jeff –

    I read your rant the other day. I wish we could go back to a saner period.

    Clearly the political class’ push for healthcare (US) and the climate bills are not moderated by popular opinion.

    On the climate front, I’ve always thought that this was a race between the models and reality. Hopefully, the reality would demostrate the models false in time to “save” the world from the excesses of the green.

    But, we have an example of healthcare. Widely unpopular, politician fret over voting for it, widely believed to be a game wrecker in terms of economics and health.

    Yet, Pelosi, says that she’ll get it done no matter what. She means by hook or crook with her Dem caucas…no Republicans need apply. SO this is a measure of ideological fevor.

    And, now, back to Monkton…there’s a certain similarity there. Next summer are we to pass Cap and Trade via the Slaughter Rule? Or, maybe Obama will just deam all this passed. actually going thru a treaty process is so, well, tedious.

    Tom Friedman is leading the charge that compares China (the Chicom China) favorably to the US…they don’t have to wade thru the much of the political jungle, with the right-wingers hanging on every treebranch just to slow you down.

    I hope saner people prevail…and soon please

  2. Paul Z. said

    From Bishop Hill’s blog:

    Talking about conspiracy, why is the Pope supporting AGW? Did the vatican buy into carbon emission funds or something? Also, did you know Obama is one of the persons responsible for the Chicago Climate Exchange?

    All the world leaders seem bent on pushing through some form of carbon tax or emissions scheme. Some bankers and politicians will become mega-rich, on the backs of the taxes we ordinary folk will be forced to pay. Are we going to be taxed and metered for every breath of co2 we exhale? I fear for my kids and our way of life. Feels like something big is on the horizon which will change life as we know it.

    March 16, 2010 | Paul Z.
    ===

    Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change includes

    Roman Catholic Diocese of Plymouth
    Roman Catholic Diocese of Salford
    Roman Catholic Diocese of Portsmouth

    Well, they are only doing what David Miliband (atheist) told them, who was at the Vatican spreading his propaganda in 2007:

    “I think it is appropriate to address these themes at the Pontifical Council of Justice and Peace…well before climate change gained the profile it currently holds, the Catholic Church was warning of its consequences. In 1990, Pope John Paul II…warned us of the dangers of irreversible damage caused by the greenhouse effect…We need to mobilise governments, businesses and citizens across the world to act – what Pope John Paul II described as an ‘ecological conversion’…You first invited the Chancellor Gordon Brown to address this conference. I know he has worked closely with you…and I know he sends his good wishes to this conference and your continued engagement in this agenda…we must establish carbon markets which put a price on carbon emissions…a carbon market in which credits are bought overseas will help enormously…Let me finish with an observation by an organization called the WWF…”

    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20070506115906/http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/ministers/speeches/david-miliband/dm070426.htm

    March 16, 2010 | ScientistForTruth

  3. Ausie Dan said

    Has anybody heard plans for Australian prime minister Rudd to attend a new conference as described by Lord Monckton?

    I don’t believe he would sign such a treaty if he happened to read it carefully first.
    However, his track record so far is littered with bad planning and bad execution.
    So we must be alert and possibly also alarmed.

    As in the USA, the senate holds the key for our protection.

  4. Andrew said

    “even if they get everything they want, they will find something else.”

    Yes, because as AFL founder Samuel Gompers is said to have replied to a question regard what Unions wanted, “More.”

  5. tarpon said

    They need the people’s money, all of it to run their socialist utopia. It really doesn’t matter how much they have to lie to get it.

    The new Obammunism norm is to lie, about most everything, and assume the people, are as Stalin used to call them, ‘useful idiots’.

    Who thought the science ever mattered.

  6. P Gosselin said

    I think it was mark Levin who said they are like the terminator.
    You can’t reason with them, they will not listen, they will not stop – ever!

    It’s a situation where I think the only thing that would stop them, is to let them go too far and have the people rebel massively. They are getting awfully close to that point. My feeling is that health care bill will go into law – and then that will be it.
    In a way, it has to happen.

  7. chet said

    Jeff:

    I wonder if you could help by clarifying where you fit in the spectrum of folks that are not wholly behind the agenda of the UN in its backing of anthropomorphic global warming. As I understand it you have said that you believe the ‘heat balance’ arguments are mostly plausible, but you criticize the need or success of massive politic imposition of limits.

    Is that fair?

    I think the most moderate of true climate scientists will concede that there are still all kinds of unknowns about the whole system of both positive and negative feedback between energy from the sun being captured by the increasing concentrations of CO2 will translate into weather that has the potential to make the earth a less hospitable place, yet there does seem to be consensus that over long periods of time any differences of the earth being warmer than present with lower concentrations of atmospheric CO2 are correlated with periods of more intense solar radiation and any periods of the earth being cooler than present with higher / similar levels of atmospheric CO2 had less intense solar radiation.

    That is not the view one will hear among the talk shows or read on the blogs of those that seem more focused on saying that CO2 is not something that to even thing about…

  8. Carrick said

    That Monkcton dude has some crazy-a$$ed eyes.

    Just sayin’

  9. David S said

    Jeff
    Your afterthought about the healthcare circus: it depends where you live. It is a hot button in the US, but from where I sit in the UK the thing that really frightens me is the idea that half a degree of global warming can be the catalyst for a worldwide distortion of economic and industrial policy, overseen by a thought police typified by the dishonest Pachauri and ignorant Ed Miliband, cheered on by the BBC, the Met Office and the Nobel Prize winner himself. We can live with a halfassed, demoralised health service which costs half of what yours does, with no discernible difference in life chances, but we can’t survive an economic collapse that lasts a generation, the destruction of what is left of our industrial base, and the brainwashing of our children.

  10. ErnieK said

    The politics of health care and AGW are the same. Neither one is what they purport to be. AGW is not about global warming and health care is not about health – they both have the same goal – increased government power and control. When push comes to shove those seeking control will resort to almost any tactic – “the end justifies the means” – lie, cheat, make up the rules as they go. They don’t care because they “know” that they are “right”.

  11. Phillip Bratby said

    Carrick: I believe the Viscount’s bulging eyes are a result of Grave’s disease (proptosis).

  12. David Adamson said

    Regarding the math post, maybe OT, but have you checked out blogger VS and his statistical knowledge against Tamino, dhogaza and Eli Rabett at http://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/global-average-temperature-increase-giss-hadcru-and-ncdc-compared/#comment-1583.
    Very interesting and well worth a read.
    Would Jeff please comment?

  13. David Adamson said

    sorry the above link is way through the blog
    try this one for the start http://ourchangingclimate.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/global-average-temperature-increase-giss-hadcru-and-ncdc-compared/

    Word count shows over 13,000 by VS and counting. the Rabbit made one appearance, never to return!

  14. AMac said

    Re: David Adamson (Mar 17 19:17)

    VS makes the case that temperature changes (global average anomaly changes over time) can be properly described as a Random Walk.

    Anybody who looks at the record or for that matter thinks about the weather can discern a good deal of randomness there, so ok.

    But the Random Walk description strikes me as counterintuitive for the medium to long run. The Earth is in some semblance of an energy balance with its surroundings, mediated by its atmosphere. A truly random walk as VS describes would seem to mandate a disconnection in that respect.

  15. papertiger said

    Check the latest AMSRE ice extent map for Antarctica.

    The thing that jumps out is both the Ronne and Ross iceshelfs are enclosed and cut off from the sea by hundreds of miles of solid sea ice. March is the last gasp of summer for them, so this is multi year ice, right?

    Also it looks like the Larsen B iceshelf is intact/reformed/back in black. This might be just an artifact of the map used. Anybody know of a direct satellite real time image site I could look at?

  16. curious said

    14 – AMac – isn’t he saying temp. changes can’t be distinguished from a random walk? Sorry if that comes across as semantics but I got the impression his main point is that the oft quoted OLS trend approach, in the absence of a validated causal model, cannot be justified on the characteristics of the data available as the data is not distinguishable from a random walk. He then makes the same claim for CO2 data and further rejects the theory they (CO2 and temp.) are related due to a lack of correlation.

    Re: the medium to long run of random walks Lubos has an interesting post here:

    http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/03/tamino-vs-random-walk.html

    FWIW I think a random walk can and will reverse an infinite number of times so I’m not too sure how the sqrt(t) to distance thing works out – I’m guessing it is the maximum distance the rw can progress in t steps. As far as energy balance goes I think the problem is often looked at as having a deterministic static solution which the “climate system” is converging on in accordance with a single driving variable derived as the net balance of all the postulated forcings. Without any deep understanding or study I think this is wrong as the system is a dynamic one driven by a pulsing energy source (daily cycle, seasonal cycle etc) and with IMO dynamic feedbacks and responses all with potentially different periods (assuming they are even harmonic) etc etc. Hence I don’t see why the peturbations should be expected to tend to a steady state solution. Have you seen the work of Demetris Koutsoyannis –

    http://www.itia.ntua.gr/dk/

    http://www.egu.eu/awards-medals/award/henry_darcy/medalist/29.html – there was a really neat presentation he made (I think) for this with a toy model example but I can’t refind it at the moment.

    http://climateaudit.org/2008/07/29/koutsoyiannis-et-al-2008-on-the-credibility-of-climate-predictions/

  17. Tim L said

    I do not see how they will over run this usa, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss#Swiss_Armed_Forces.
    kill everyone? kill all who disagrees with Socialization?
    we will see

  18. Paul Z. said

    Follow the money folks:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/breaking_the_obama_code_the_gr.html

  19. PhilJourdan said

    Paul Z #18 – Al Gore never made a secret (or if he did it was quickly exposed) that it was always about the money.

  20. Rich said

    This guy seems to have Graves ophthalmopathy. That said, he is generally correct. But those eyes….

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