the Air Vent

Because the world needs another opinion

Extreme Climate –

Posted by Jeff Id on July 1, 2010

Andrew or TTCA, wrote a post which linked to some commentary by Dr. Steig at Real Climate.  The comment was a bit stunning in my opinion.

Barry Woods says:

If realclimate coudld link to luke wamer blogs, it might reduce the criticism of advocatcy..

‘climate Sicence for climate scientists’

as they link to desmog blog and geaorge monbiot,
but not climate audit, pielke’s or say lucia’s blackboard..
george monbiot is not a scientist, he is a journalist!

So it does look like advocacy to a new observer
If they cuold bring themselve to do this it would be a gesture of goodwill..

Having a link to ‘how to talk to Global Warming Sceptic’ vetted and endorsed by professionals at RealClimate, reflects, to an observer badly on RealClimate..

So, constructive advice, drop the links to the more ‘flag waving’ type advocacy sites, include some ‘respected’ alternative views, it would help Realclimate stop being ‘perceived’ as an advocacy site rather than a science site…

[Response: Being listed on our blogroll does not constitute endorsement. In general, the sites we do list — whether they are run by scientists or not — tend to get the science right much of the time, and hence are consistent with our mission. Being not-listed could mean that a) we haven’t heard of the site, b) that it is uninteresting or unimportant, or c) that we consider it dishonest or disingenuous with respect to the science. Pielke Jr, Blackboard, and ClimateAudit all fall squarely into the latter category.–eric]

I’m glad tAV wasn’t listed by Dr. Steig but calling these three blogs dishonest or disingenuous is dis-gusting.  I’ve seen not one valid criticism of any statement of any of these three blogs at RC.  Nothing, not one.  I’ve done my share of Pielke bashing -for his ridiculous comments on CO2 limitation, very big view of himself and that kind of garbage but he does not strike me as dishonest.  I’ve made negative comments at the blackboard and they have been addressed openly.  Calling Lucia dishonest is um.. incorrect,and I suspect somewhat dangerous – she does knit after all.  Steve M probably doesn’t care.

I think the doc needs to start hanging out with a new group of friends.

29 Responses to “Extreme Climate –”

  1. kim said

    I saw that a couple of days ago and was waiting for lucia to see. I’m not going to be the one to tell her about it.

  2. Jeff Id said


    I sent an email to her. I can’t believe he wrote it.

  3. timetochooseagain said

    Yes, it did indeed baffle me sufficiently that I wrote a blog post about it. Glad to know you do indeed read it Jeff! I must be doing something right.

    Been having trouble with the Internet today, I just dug out your comments.

  4. Steig has made a number of comments about me that are untrue and defamatory. I regard his comments as very offensive. Whether it’s worthwhile doing anything about them is another matter entirely.

  5. timetochooseagain said

    What’s really odd, I think, is that Eric Steig is always coming here, to tAV, and trying very hard to show how “reasonable” he is. He doesn’t engage us as much as we might like, but he does comment here sometimes, and never has commented here saying something so ridiculous as that, at least to my knowledge. But it seems that the way he talks among his colleagues is very different, apparently-not reasonable at all!

    Will the real Eric please stand up?

  6. Jeff Id said

    #4, He needs to rethink or point out specifically what he means.

  7. Jeff Id said

    #3 I read most blogs linked here by peoples names. I read far more than I blog or comment.

  8. I had a brief exchange on my blog with Steig about this comment. His response was that (a) I hurt his feelings and/or (b) he disagrees with my views on policy. You can see the exchange here:

    And Jeff, here is my latest post on decarbonization:

    All best 😉

  9. j ferguson said

    “She knits” As the tumbrils roll by?

  10. Kenneth Fritsch said

    I say let the pip squeak.

  11. Jeff Id said

    I like doc Steig for his comments here but haven’t kept up with this sort of rant at RC. I hope it’s just a bad day, I’ve made a few rants here myself after all.

    #8 I’ll check it out soon. Nobody should even insinuate your dishonesty IMHO. There is a lot of government funded nonsense in climate that deserves the tag. Honestly, I was disturbed by a post by a ‘skeptic’ recently that seemed to have blinders on but there is far less of that kind of behavior than the team would like us to believe.

  12. AMac said

    Of skeptics/lukewarmers/contrarians/”denialists” who blog: many (not all) seem to be able and willing to have civil, respectful conversations with people of other beliefs on climate issues. This is in contrast to advocates of the AGW Consensus position. Very few have the ability and desire to display civility. Fewer still seem to engage in intellectual give-and-take. It’s generally unpleasant to be on the receiving end of another person’s condescension and sarcasm. A patronizing attitude coupled with inadequate knowledge or reasoning skills is particularly unattractive. Reviewing the Reader Backgrounds thread, such encounters seem to be common in the accounts offered by non-AGW-Consensus adherents who read this blog.

    It’s notable that this trait — a social and intellectual failing in other circumstances — seems to serve as a badge of distinction, recognized and honored by many AGW Consensus advocates. In that respect, Dr. Steig’s RealClimate comment is quite ordinary.

    Probably there are traits common to the type of people who blog and comment at blogs that bring out this pathology. Probably, too, the impersonal, text-based nature of the medium promotes this trend. And perhaps there’s an appetite for community that contributes.

    As far as learning science and following scientific developments, the internet has made this the best of times. Alas, that development comes with some notable downsides.

  13. BarryW said


    These are the intelligentsia/True Believers. If you don’t understand then you just are too dumb or ignorant.

    I think the remoteness of the contact contributes to the lack of civility. The lack of a social interaction where you might be subject to a physical altercation if you overstep the bounds of courtesy leads to this behavior. Think of how people react at sporting events where they are anonymous in a crowd and have no fear of a response from the players they are cursing at or throwing thing at.

  14. JAE said

    The comment quoted by the post was spot on target. The response shows great desperation, doubt,and concern. I like the drift.

  15. andy said

    He accused Pielke Jr of the same on his blog and when asked for examples produced not one.

    I don’t think eric knows what the words mean.

    I just love the fact that when you scratch the surface of these ‘experts’ a complete idiot appears.

  16. lucia said

    Oh, I’m not going to stab Eric with a set of #1 steel needles. 🙂

    I read that. I laughed. First: It’s self contradictory. He says putting someone on the blogroll isn’t an endorsement and then explain in what way blogs on the list are “good”. Well, if he uses that criteria, putting them on the blogroll is an endorsement.

    Second, as far as I can tell, eric thinks “disagrees with us sometimes” is “being disingenuous”.

    “She knits” As the tumbrils roll by?

    You do know that knitting needles with metal tips were prohibited on flights after 9/11? They let them on now though. ( For about 3-4 years, email knitting lists discussed various plastic tips a lot.)

  17. […] of course, if I do that, I’ll never get on Real Climate blogroll. Oh […]

  18. Kenneth Fritsch said

    I have this image of Lucia as a younger, married and attractive Miss Marple, by Agatha Christie, who knits, observes and lets the world come to her as she solves mysteries. My image of Eric was given in my previous post. I may be biased but those are my images and I cannot help myself – even to the point of publicly revealing them.

  19. Sean said

    I still say the Real Climate is in essence a double agent. Poeple who are sitting on the fence go to RC learn about climate science and so they can make an intelligent decision on what kind of stand to make. Manhy fence sitters become skeptics within days. Steig just proved why.

  20. stan said

    Krauthammer once wrote — the difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans think Democrats are wrong and Democrats think Republicans are evil. And there are dozens of examples to prove he is right. Climate science is politics — see the anecdote related by Pielke, jr about all the climate scientists calling his university superiors because they were angry that he agreed to appear at a congressional hearing. They weren’t angry about his testimony, only that the hearing was being conducted by Republicans.

    Alarmists (mostly Democrats/liberals) are convinced that those who disagree are evil. That’s why they have no problem slandering them. That’s why they are so quick to believe that “deniers” are being paid off by a Big Oil conspiracy. Their belief in the inherent evil of those who disagree is the initial starting point for the alarmists’ analysis. It colors everything thereafter.

  21. Andrew said

    20-Small point but: ” They weren’t angry about his testimony, only that the hearing was being conducted by Republicans.” Congressional Hearings are conducted by both parties, and the majority and minority party’s members of the committee select witnesses (lately the minority’s right has been to call witness, singular). They were angry that the people who asked him to testify were Republicans.

  22. stan said

    Yes, just trying to summarize without bogging down into small points. The important point is that climate scientists got their panties in a major wad because they worried that the public might associate Roger with those evil Republicans and thereby benefit the GOP. They got so upset that they asked his superiors to silence him.

  23. Barry Woods said

    Hi Jeff….

    As I posted that comment at RealClimate that drew that response, you might be interested in my follow up comments that got deleted out of hand…

    Thus, unable to reply to people critcising me further on in the comments at RealClimate..

    moderated RealClimate comment—————————–

    The link to George Monbiot – who quiet famously has a Picture Card – Top Ten Climate Change Deniars, including Senator Inholfe!!! And Sarah Palin, how does that help Real Climate.

    Whatever anyone may think of these peoples politics.
    I’m not a USA citizen, but I imagine that can not exacty help politically..

    Climate Audit may be in Real Climates opinion wrong, but the section is other opinions?

    Politically, how does that help RealClimate in the USA, some of these sites are not talking science , but the worse sort of politics”

  24. David S said

    Any chance of Dr Steig coming over to the UK and repeating his accusations of dishonesty? Our generous libel and slander awards could pay for first class flights for Steve, with plenty over as a fighting fund.

  25. Barry Woods said

    The second attempt to follow up at Real Climate, as Ray had got quite snarky about me:

    Comment 106 at RealClimate awaiting moderation:

    “In response to Ray Bradbury. I was merely trying to suggest to Realclimate, how it could help itself, in something that has become very political:

    as an example:

    The link to George Monbiot – Guardian journalist – who quiet famously has a Picture Card –

    Top Ten Climate Change Deniars – article –

    on a mainstream UK newspapers website -not just a blogger but a political activist

    “Deniars”- inclusding Senator Inholfe!!! And Sarah Palin,
    How does that help Real Climate, linking to this, most of his articles only help push people into warring tribes, which helps no one.

    Whatever anyone may think of those politicians he call deniars. I’m not a USA citizen, but I imagine that can not exacty help Real climate in the current political climate..

    Some of these sites are not talking science , but the worse sort of politics, whatever the science.”

    (ps, I’m not BarryW above, to avoid confusion)

  26. Barry Woods said

    When I mentioned the above at collide a scape (comment 164#)
    I was met with the reply below…

    Gavin Says:
    June 25th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
    #164 Read the comment policy. Off topic digressions are moderated.


    Presumably Ray having a go at me was on topic!

  27. timetochooseagain said

    The reason that RC doesn’t care if you think they are making errors of political judgment:

    They are all Left wingers. I invite them to come and deny this, because it is completely true. Their paymasters at Fenton Communications are, among other things, also behind Cindy Sheehan. Gavin Schmidt’s boss openly campaigns for Democrats, including John Kerry. These people can protest all they please but if anyone actually thinks they are scientists with no political axe to grind, they are blind to reality.

  28. Barry Woods said

    Iwas trying to engage!

    If they demonstrate the ability to make their own life harder for themselves, I am very prepared to help them do this..

    If someone is unreasonable (but pretends otherwise) the best strategy is to be even more reasonable, until they shoot themselves in the foot, with responses like the above…

    I genuinely was saying, if you want less criticism, don’t do this, which would have helped everyone..

  29. stan said


    Poor Andy Revkin has a post at Dot Earth with the whining of some of the hockey team about the “hacking crime”. You have to read it to believe it.

    These professionally incompetent moral retards should be grateful that the world’s poor haven’t performed some rough justice on them for their dishonest efforts to deprive said poor of a chance at a better life.

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