the Air Vent

Because the world needs another opinion

Archive for December, 2015

Yet Another Blog Kerfuffle

Posted by Jeff Id on December 15, 2015

Blogging is about connection to your readers.  In my heyday, this blog had 15000 views per day.   This was due in large part to climategate emails being discovered right here, despite some revisionist history still in process. This blog was in the middle of some fairly controversial climate blog issues at the time and became a second (and more open) choice for those people who risked so much to release the emails.  My willingness to take risks and say truth attracted the link.  It also attracted TWO psychology studies on different continents alleging that someone called ‘Condon’ (some guy with a lot of patents, numerous technical achievements and a fair sized company) couldn’t be scientifically objective.  I may not be Einstein but it is hard to dismiss success.

Keep in mind that Climategate exposed scientists lying to make a case. It isn’t our fault that climate scientists lie – they are being very well paid to do so and the stars of the field really believe that shutting down industry is for your own good.

Prior to climategate, this blog had 5000 views per day and was growing fast. That readership level exceeded my hometown newspaper at the time.   So what causes that sort of readership.  Certainly informational posting activity on the blog is #1, but equally a mutual understanding is a second factor.   People need information, a different viewpoint, and this did NOT come from me.  It came from commenters, blog readers, seeking a more intellectual outlet for their thoughts.  I learned more than I wrote because that is what smart people do.  Many attached themselves to this blog because of my willingness to admit error-  something I’ve seen far too little of on other blogs.   To those unwilling bloggers — It really doesn’t hurt as bad as it sounds.  Some attached here for the purpose of critiquing skeptics, climate scientists came here because of the open atmosphere.

I miss those days because of the fun.  Unfortunately, I have far less time for such nonsense these days.  Far less being greater than zero, I’ve decided to post today.

I left a comment a Lucias blog about Muslims.   I’m not a fan of Muslim culture and I knew it would be controversial.   I despise beyond reason the oppression of women.  I literally hate it.   I despise the vocal intolerance of Muslim countries toward other religions.   There is simply no soft way to put it.  I am intolerant of intolerance.  The fact that women can’t drive in Saudi Arabia, that they need 4 male witnesses to prove rape,  they need men to accompany them in public.   The boys love their culture and it is easy to see why but it is quite archaic and notwithstanding its existence, unacceptable in modern life.

The problem with Muslims is that far too many of them wish to use the Koran to justify taking away the rights of other people.  To force them into believing in an illogical and impossible god and then to murder them if they don’t agree.  This isn’t a fringe opinion of their culture, as much as we would like to imagine otherwise.  Pew research has a poll which found that 1 percent of American Muslims believe that suicide bombing and other extreme violence is often necessary – to protect Islam.  Worse, 7 percent believe it is sometimes necessary.  Here is the quote:

In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say that such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified in these circumstances.

The article seemed to focus more on the moderate statements of most Muslims in the survey but that 7 and 1 percent are horribly alarming.  There are different stats on the population of Muslims in the United states, but a census in 2010 showed 2.6 million.   If these numbers are accurate that means we have at least 26,000 muslims in the US who believe that suicide bombing is often necessary to protect Islam.   Worse yet, 182,000 believe that these tactics should be used sometimes.

These are not small numbers and the poll showed that they were far greater overseas.

Unfortunately for us all, this is not a healthy culture.   When such huge fractions of American Muslims see murder of children as excusable for their invisible man in the sky, I am simply not ok with it.  I don’t know about you, but my little boys deserve a full and free life devoid of senseless murder.   The problem runs very deep in their culture when you can produce such high rates of evil beliefs.

This whole thing started when I read an entire thread of commentary at The Blackboard climate blog. I saw several people comparing Christian evils with Muslim ones, an opinion which is so inaccurate it had to be replied to.

Some quotes from the thread:

“How about militant Christian violence? How many mass shootings and individual assassinations do we have to cite before we agree that this religion, with such a bloody and violent history, is a threat to our society”

“Calling people hypocrites because they apply different standards to Muslims than other groups such as Christians is not resorting to a tu quoque fallacy. It’s not saying their logic is wrong because of the double standards; it’s saying they’re hypocrites because of the double standards.And in my case, it’s saying those double standards make them look like bigots, because there is no logical or moral reason for using double standards. The only reason to apply different logical arguments based solely upon which group is being considered is bias. Biased treatment of people based upon their ethnicity or religion is bigotry.”

And this quote which really set the wheel in motion:

DeWitt, hopefully you aren’t totally oblivious to reality.

For example, we have a supposedly Christian man attack and kill 9 people in a black Church.

Response from the right: “He’s crazy obviously.”

Another supposedly Christian man attacks and kills 6 people at a Sikh temple.

Response from the right “The guy’s obviously insane”.

We have two supposedly Muslim people attack and kill 14.

Response from the right: “Obviously this is Islamic terrorism. ”

In alternative universe where a Muslim walked into a church and killed 9 people, a Muslim goes in and kills 6 more at another church and a Christian couple killed 14 co-workers, I don’t have any doubt which ones of these you guys would be discussing.

It went on and on — 500 plus comments.   Eventually I replied with this apparent smoker….

I’ve read this entire thread today and am surprised by many of the opinions here. A bit of common sense seems in order.

One problem Americans and modern westerners have is the fact that we have all been taught to accept all religion as though all religion is equal. The comments by several comparing Christian evils to those of Islam are so fantastically deluded I can’t even begin. Yes there are bad people of all relgions, but the reality of Islam as it is practiced can be seen across the cultures of the middle east. The repression of women legally and physically is rather hard to miss, as is what happens to those who wish to leave Islam. Then there is the blatantly obvious cries of god is great while committing mass murder as is vociferously advocated by their religious leaders. Which modern Christian religious leaders are calling for mass murder in exchange for going to heaven?

Almost to damned ignorant to discuss.

These are distinctly anti-western values. These values are things I want no part of in my country. Despite the demands of the intolerant left, I see no reason why I should accept these ignorant views as equal to my own. Like religion, or ridiculous political opinion, or Sharia law, all views are not created equal. There are many here who have already called this intolerance, I call it common sense.

There are plenty of muslims who act moderate and therefore see islam as good, but there are plenty of liberals who think what Obama has done to America is good too. I watched a video of a few guys with Jesus loves shirts be attacked physically and verbally by a crowd of hundreds of muslims in Dearborn Michigan. I was born in that area and much of my family grew up there. The influx of Muslims to that region has now almost fully displaced Christians and despite there being plenty of opportunities for the ‘peaceful’ muslims to speak out against intolerance, there was nothing but middle east style culture in evidence. Like the European no-go zones, the police refused to intervene.

No common sense moderate Muslims in sight. None of the outrage at how these Christians were being treated that you would expect from modern moderate muslims. I’m sure there was some outrage actually, but the religion as practiced doesn’t allow dissent and those who would speak out in that crowd would likely be punished.

Note that these United States muslims aren’t the ones being bombed. They aren’t the ones being persecuted. The only thing they have in common with the middle east muslims is their religion – and apparently their intolerance of any other religion.

We certainly don’t need more of that in the US or anywhere else in the world. I’m no fan of Trump either because it doesn’t make sense to me to trade one narcissist for another, but I certainly wouldn’t mind stopping all muslim immigration for a period of time. I’ve seen enough of it and want no part of their archaic lifestyle, belief system, repression of women, nor do we need to add another layer of nonsensical Sharia law. It certainly wouldn’t harm the US to say no to Syrian immigrants either. The very slight additional risk of bringing any of these people over is not worth it in my opinion, but compared to the rest of the nightmare this nonsensical world is, the issue barely makes the radar.

I don’t have any real answers to any of this but when faced with a group which behaves in a manner incompatible with freedom, we must see it with clear eyes. We cannot pretend that evils by individual Christians are equal to Imams demanding self-sacrifice against innocent people so their followers can go to heaven. It’s simply not a reasonable opinion to hold.

Definitely a strong comment, which I do believe is accurate.   The evidence of the video however, caused Brandon Shollenberger to go off the deep end and post a blog using the video part of my comment only and left the rest of the context out.   I’m rather pissed at him for his mischaracterizations and hadn’t realized just how far some people would go to defend evil behaviors but the internet never seems to have a lower bound.

I know there are moderate Muslims who are also offended by the behaviors of some in their religion, but I do not believe they see the impact of Islam with clear eyes.   There is beauty in religion, however, the dark side of Islam is far stronger than Christianity has ever been.  That is not to say that the old testament is not full of evils as well, but the evils are not preached to the masses as the way to heaven, nor are they practiced by Christians anywhere in the world.   It is not written or taught in that manner currently.   In Islam, the threats to destroy all of Israel, America, Christians come right from their leaders.   Right from those in charge, to the masses of believers, and that is a major difference.   If you can’t see it, I cannot help you.

In the interest of full disclosure, as a decent undergraduate engineering student, I was tasked with guiding two masters electrical engineers through their final theses, as they had failed at getting their projects done.   I was near graduation and was about to start my own masters ME degree but the level of trust from my professors was quite high at that time looking back.   One student was Palestinian and the other a Muslim Pakistani.   The Muslim would stop and pray during his intervals right in the middle of experiments and seemed very devout.   One day he told me that he wanted to kill a Christian for Allah.   It was right out of the blue, an engineering student being helped through his degree by a young man raised Catholic.  I told him I was Christian and asked if he would kill me.  He replied that he would.  This was back in about 1992 and well before the extremism became big news. The conversation ended when I told him good luck with that and we never spoke of it again.   They both graduated with my help.

My uncle was a lawyer who worked in the world trade center.   He was out of the office when the first bombings took place and he was at a dentists appointment when the planes hit.  Two attacks on a member of my family whom these people had never met also color my views, I think in a reasonable and cautious way, but you may not.

So I will leave it here with a couple of questions:

Considering the level of extremism in Islam as it is currently practiced, what is wrong with a temporary ban on immigration of Muslims?  There are no constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion for non-citizens.  No guarantee of immigration rights.  Even if we don’t hit one of the 8% who believe suicide bombing is a good thing for Islam, there is definitely an increased risk that the person we are accepting into America will want to replace our laws with archaic and evil Sharia law.   The individuals are more likely to have a distaste for our freedoms and want to return half our population to servitude.  Sure we most often will find a moderate with respect to terrorism, but not always, and that is no guarantee on their political views.

The second question I ask is whether it is bigotry or intolerant to have my opinions as expressed above when it is my personal and family safety as well as our way of life I am protecting?  It seems reasonable that when people are being killed in the name of a belief system where leaders demand that their followers murder for god, a certain pragmatism should take effect.  At what point is common sense outweighed by the need to be fair to other beliefs?

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Warning to commenters.  This is an inflammatory topic by its nature so the thread will be moderated.   Lets avoid name calling and stick to the topic.

 

 

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