There is a myth about global warming, perpetuated by the media, that AGW does not have a political motive. I’ve had several commenters complain here that the politics are not right vs left they are on both sides. Tom Fuller would be a great example of someone on the left who sees that AGW is a bad argument. However, in no case does any aspect of politics unilaterally keep people of another general view at 100% disagreement. The fact that some agree or disagree does not change the reality that AGW is fully and completely about leftist politics.
You can tell it’s about politics because of the political history of the top people involved, but more importantly – the solution. Everything is an emergency, democracy is too slow, we must act now to tax and redistribute. Policies which are foolish in the extreme, and when our current economic situation (worldwide) collapses further (which it will) ,will it be evil capitalism or the corrupting influences of small minded socialist politicians sticking their evil fingers ever deeper into the heart of our society.
Children with American flags on their shirts sent home from school.
Automatic guilt in courtrooms with only the hints of justice.
Ignoring of the US constitution in favor of government services.
America and the UK are becoming hell for people of reasonable mind, but there is nowhere to run to. Every liberal immigrant had their own utopia in the country from which they ran, yet they come here and try again. Every tax added is another fools errand to redistribute wealth away from the people they aspire to be.
How many of us in the United States know people that under Obama haven’t even bothered to seek a job? –– think about that!! Their unemployment was just extended — for months. Do we have the money at 100 billion dollars a month defecit. One hundred BILLION. Think about that, 300 million Americans, all broke, and yet we are spending 100 billion more in our CENTRAL government alone PER MONTH than our income can support. That’s 333 dollars PER PERSON per month. If you have a 4 person family, then in order to support LEFTIST policy you need to send an additional 1332 USD PER MONTH to the government on average to continue the process. THIS WILL NOT CONTINUE FOR LONG!!
You know the answer they’ll come up with soon – raise taxes on the rich. The mysterious rich – IOW, the overstressed corporations who hire us.
It’s insane, the whole concept that socialism might work in the US, we already have the answer, but half of you don’t know it yet, half of you aren’t smart enough to figure the obvious out. You don’t even realize that we’ve already gone way way too far. Jeff I’m optimistic America can do anything. People are people, the system is what made America great, not subversion, manipulation corruption and political payoff.
The left will kill this country, the current ‘alleged’ right will too. People bashed Bush for all kinds of reasons, in my opinion, his biggest downfall was that he couldn’t resist the money. Besides massive increases in government education and military, there was the pre-planned bailout of central banks. It was pre-planned too. He and the allegedly conservative congress, couldn’t stop the spending.
AGW is about increasing spending, it will fail even if the favorite policies of the left are enacted, but it will hurt. If Gavin’s favorite solutions are enacted, we will have more CO2 released than any of them ever imagined. There will be no money to do anything else. We’ll burn the damned trees to keep our families warm and shoot the bald eagles if we need to eat.
Leftist scientists like Gavin and Briffa, don’t even know they are being used. It’s all a good idea to the protected elite, but America has reached the limit under Obama, Pelosi and Reed, the constitution is a rag without a home. A document to be reinterpreted for ever greater central government power, ever greater control and theft of our money. It is theft too, it’s your damned money not theirs!
Wake up America, the end is neigh. Or will the next economic collapse, just be another emergency which requires more government intervention, mass unemployment and wide spread poverty.
Maybe Muslim is the answer, at least they’re pragmatic.
—
I’ve had my say, it needs to be said because there are too many who don’t see the obvious. We have far far far too much central government control, business, taxation, education, health, road, military, science, university —- too damned much. It’s gone way past a close call at this point and agw is just another rock in the cobblestone walk to the peoples republic.
BTW, I’ve had the privilege of listening to the most ignorant of the peoples republic laugh at us for our folly. Stupid little girls with no concept of the world politics other than their own govt. controlled information sources laughing, at us, and our governments change to socialism. Not for the definition of ‘is’ either.
the Air Vent 
Wow, after just writing that vent, I read what happened to the Dow today. It’s may happen sooner than I thought.
Every single day it seems like the world becomes a crazier, more dangerous place. Anyone with any sanity is surely on the verge of loosing it. I know I am. And I thought I didn’t have any left.
But what to do…I suppose we just wait until we can muster the political power to pick up the pieces of what’s left of the USA and put things right.
For those who think I’m wrong, please send your self addressed, stamped checks for 333USD/person/housold/month to…
Jeff Id
PO Box, my house.
666 Devil’s keeper lane
Money Il, 50666
My observations of politicians show that they cannot resist the trap of “Doing Something”. ‘Leave well alone’, does not appeal to them – they must make their mark. Save the spotted owl, and destroy the forestry industry – save the snail darter – crunch down on the hydroelectric industry. Refuse to look 10 years into the future when you allow people with no hope of repayment to get a house mortgage, – oooops, unintended consequences.
I have sat in on meetings where they are going to do ‘X’ and the consequences of ‘X’ are pointed out to them and these concerns are dismissed with a wave of a hand, brushed aside as minor, or regarded as ‘acceptable’. When the vultures come home to roost, when ‘X’ goes belly up, they are the first to bail out or have already moved on, leaving people like me to pick up the pieces – and it does no good to be able to say, ‘I told you so’.
I know it is a vent, but the loss of all that wasted money – $79 Billion – on “Climate Science” rather than on real concerns bugs me. There are a lot of vultures out there, ready to come and roost.
#4 79 billion/yr is low.
We definitely live in interesting times.
Climategate was just the tip of the iceberg of fraudulent science used for propaganda.
With kind regards,
Oliver K. Manuel
Emeritus Professor
Nuclear & Space Studies
Former NASA PI for Apollo
Yes – depressing. After all the debate and reasoned argument regarding AGW, it matters not a jot because the big powers have their agenda already well entrenched. Wait till the whole world has gone the way of Greece. Maybe then we will start to wake up.
Don’t be too depressed – two polls out today, one Gallup in US, one Galaxy in Oz. They would not make CAGW’ers and Cap’n Traders very happy at all. Ordinary people are brighter than politicians think.
“There is a myth about global warming, perpetuated by the media, that AGW does not have a political motive. I’ve had several commenters complain here that the politics are not right vs left they are on both sides.”
No, the contrary is believed by people with short memories. The alignment of folk on the right against AGW is quite recent.
In 1992 the UN convened the Framework Convention on Climate Change. This was a treaty backing the Kyoto process. It was almost as comprehensive as anything discussed today. Pres Bush Sr presented to the Senate for ratification. The Senate approved it, with a 2/3 majority and no great opposition, and Pres Bush signed it.
The science hasn’t basically changed since then. It’s only in the minds of some that standard physics has become a leftist conspiracy.
Er, umm, actually, the fight against global warming got real when Margaret Thatcher needed a tool to break the coal miner unions in England and wanted an excuse to push nuclear power. Ably assisted by her advisor Viscount Lord, umm, Monckton, they came up with humanly caused global warming to enlist support…
Of course, most of the sinners since then have come from my side of the fence, I’ll grant you. But Dick Nixon created the EPA, George Bush pushed Kyoto and signed it, as Nick notes, and his son pushed the EPA to regulate it.
There are levers being pushed and pulled and a grand attempt at manipulation is taking place. But it still ain’t left or right. It’s deeper than that.
The late John Daly provides the history: http://www.john-daly.com/history.htm
And not to be piling on,
“Christopher Walter Monckton, Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, is a former Prime Ministerial adviser on scientific and domestic policy to Margaret Thatcher. In 1986 he advised her that “global warming” might be a problem and recommended that it be investigated. ”
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/2/27_Lord_Christopher_Monckton.html
When I arrived in the USA in 1982 this country appeared to have its act together. It has been depressing to see what worked so well being replaced by socialist policies that have failed everywhere.
Lincoln’s quaint idea that “…government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth” is now in real danger.
In most countries the people serve the government rather than the other way around. Too bad that so few people today have read Hayek’s “Road to Serfdom” or Vaclav Havel’s “Power to the Powerless”.
ouch. sorry Jeff, but this rant is completely irrational.
as the right actually is, at this time:
Next Hearing Thursday, May 6: The Foundation of Climate Science
…
The Republican witness on the panel will be Lord Christopher Walter Monckton, 3rd Viscount Monckton of Brenchley.
WHAT: Select Committee hearing, “The Foundation of Climate Science”
WHEN: Thursday, May 6, 2010, 9:30 AM
CAGW is environmentalism on very harmful steroids. Environmentalism is conservative in the sense of wanting to preserve “the environment”. Still, it’s often been associated with the political left. That’s how I would begin the analysis, not sure where it would go after that.
Jeff
As usual History has some clear lessons for us. The fall of Rome has very close parallels in the profligacy and taxation of many western governments, of which the US and UK are notable examples.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/romefallarticles/a/fallofrome_3.htm
Tonyb
Tom Fuller #11 and 12
The story is a lot more complicated AND more nuanced than you believe as regards Margaret Thatchers alleged use of Nuclear to break the miners strike and Moncktons supposed role in it.
Richard Courtney-a British lead author with the IPCC was involved and I am sure he will be pleased to give you the background should you be interested. His email address is readily available
Tonyb
John Tamny advises hope, not despair:
http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/02/federal-government-entrepreneurs-europe-opinions-columnists-john-tamny.html
This American restlessness, the unrelenting drive for something better, reveals itself most notably in the entrepreneurial nature of the average American. Driven to work hard by our restless minds, Americans elevate starting a business far more than individuals in most countries do. According to a poll cited by Gartner, when asked “Do you think that starting a new business is a respected occupation in your community?”, 91% of Americans polled said yes vs. 28% of British and 8% of Japanese respondents.
Sorry for the capitalization. I used (misused) the ‘cite’ tag for an excerpt.
Jeff Id’s above rant is feeded by gut feeling rather than objective observation of the current situation.
The collapse of the financial system as we know it, is caused by Wall Cheat and aided by Washington both under D and Rep presidency. Clinton, Bush both allowed Wall Cheat to be totally dominant and actually running the financial system in the USA. Obama is, until now, totally failing to adress the huge problems GoldSacks at al are creating for their own profit and huge bonusses all created on hot air and Ponzi schemes.
Go to http://www.zerohedge.com/ and see what really goes on in Wall Cheat.
“The Day The Market Almost Died”….
If Bush had managed the 300 billion surplus inherited from Clinton well, and not used bogus arguments to start a war against an imaginary threat that only served government-leeching companies like then one his VP was running, he would have had financial power to handle the 2008 crisis in a much better way.
The cost of the Iraq war is approaching 1 trillion now. Sounds like just the amount of money that the US could need right now.
AGW is not environmentalism, any more than 1929 or the South Sea Bubble were investment. It is like them an obsessive hysterical mass delusion. These manias happen from time to time. Its a single issue craze. Its more like financial manias and panics than anything else.
There’s nothing wrong with being concerned about having a healthy and unpolluted environment, and wanting that has nothing to do with AGW. We need to control, for instance, release of pesticides into the environment, the hideous toll of automobile deaths and injuries, particulate pollution, especially in our cities. We have done some things that help, but not nearly enough. Respect for wildlife is also reasonable and sensible. The AGW mania is actually in opposition to sane environmentalism, because it focuses on a non-existent problem to the exclusion of some really important ones.
As for socialism, Jeff, do you know what socialism consists of? You do not have socialism in the US, nor does the UK or Europe. What we have increasingly in the US is oligarchy. You need to read two things to understand this, and understanding will calm your feelings and give you a better feeling of intellectual control. One is Yves Smith’s book, E-Conned. The early chapters on economic theory are complete junk. The chapters on the mechanics of the financial bubble, and the diagnosis of the social structures that allowed it all, are brilliant.
The second thing is the writings of Mancur Olson, which explain how over time special interests form and acquire power in stable countries, to the detriment of the country as a whole.
What has developed in the US is not socialism, it is special interest oligarchy and looting. It is not Republican or Democratic, it is not right or left wing. You are flailing around wildly on this one. What you need is focus and understanding of the real situation, not simply to use out of date labels which don’t fit the real world as it is now.
AGW is an instrument of rule: it is the politics of fascism which is the politics of the Left and far Right.
The aim of the Left – Socialism – is to remove from the individual decision-making, responsibility and ownership of wealth into the hands of a self-selecting intellectual elite running the State.
Controlling an element upon which life is based and controlling the energy supply, would be a dream come true for the Left.
This is contrary to the aims of conservatives, but those lunatics on the far Right would see AGW as an instrument of control too.
Espen
I do not claim to be an insider of US politics but surely Clinton is at the root of your current problems when he pushed through the embryonic NINJA legislation in the early 1990’s, whereby all sorts of unsuitable recipients of loans were given them for political reasons. I understand that Obama had a modest part to play in his earlier days by securing such credit for his clients through legal action.
The chickens take a long time to come home to roost, especially when they are nesting on long term loans, but roost they must at some point.
Tonyb
Tonyb: I’m not a US citizen (or resident) and certainly also no insider of US politics. My main point was to compare the current deficit to the cost of the Iraq war.
Ironically, David Gilmour is an environmentalist and unabashed AGW advocate.
Environmentalism is not necessarily “left” or “socialist”, but it has one dangerous thing in common with both of these, with Nazism, and with many religions (which might explain the sympathy it finds in some fundamentalist circles): It puts an arbitrary construct (“Nature”, “Gaia”, “The Environment”) above individual welfare. The Utopia has changed its name (other aforementioned groups would have put “Jehovah”, “God”, “Allah”, “The Aryans”, “The Proletariate” or whatever in a similar place), but all these ideologies equally destructive to peace and prosperity. We should work *for ourselves* only and not for some imaginary “greater good” – if everyone works enough to feed himself and keep his living space in good order we would not need taxes or welfare, maybe not even a government apart from the simplest policiary and judiciary system. By giving those who are unwilling or unable to keep themselves up, but prefer to have others work for them, equal space and right in our society, we will ultimately be ruled by these parasites – no matter if they turn out to be the “great unwashed” of Socialism, the anointed priests of some religion or other, or the current caste of managers and politicians.
That’s a good video, but I prefer this one which I posted here last month:
http://pgosselin.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/thought-control/
People get the government they deserve. I’m more liberal than most around here in that I think a mix of socialist and capitalist policies is ideal. We’ve obviously gone too far with things though. It’s only going to get worse as more boomers retire. That said, the “conservatives” that call themselves Republicans have just become financially liberal religious zelots. At least the liberals are more honest about spending money we don’t have.
Eventually, the ponzi scheme will fail and people will suffer. That’s what is required for people to be motivated enough to really change things. We may think things are bad now, but most people are still far too comfortable in their lives to care. Just don’t be surprised if what comes after that is even worse.
@Tonyb
I don’t consider the loans as a really major problem on a long term scale. It accelerated our current financial issues, but a lot of people made money and had jobs because of it. Obviously, we’ve turned into a big problem by bailing everyone of the people responsible out. If we would have just let the market fix itself, unemployment would have been worse, but the recovery would have been much quicker and the people that were making money off of the flawed system would have paid for it (teaching a lesson for the future). I love being in a Republic/Democracy, but one of its flaws is that, with short term election cycles, long term solutions are shunned for quick fixes so that people can get elected next term.
SamG
Gilmour has MONEY! up the wazoo, lives a life of profligacy, scoots around in a sports car, caviar, Learjet carbon footprint bigger than the dark side of the moon –
How else is he to think?
comparisons with fascists and nazis. nice.
of course following the advice given by the absolute majority of scientists involved in the subject, is a evil act, that can only be compared to the worst phases of history.
this logic is brilliant.
It’s not about left or right. It’s about those in power controlling and exploiting the masses for personal gain.
Look at who stands to gain the most from the AGW scare and just follow the money. It all makes perfect sense.
p.s. the rumour is that the drastic drop in the dow jones was caused by a trader who accidentally keyed in a “b”illion trade on his computer when he really meant to make a “m”illion trade, involving proctor and gamble. So much for financial reform, maybe he was wathcing porn too like the SEC.
We should work *for ourselves* only and not for some imaginary “greater good” – if everyone works enough to feed himself and keep his living space in good order we would not need taxes or welfare, maybe not even a government apart from the simplest policiary and judiciary system.
really a funny comment, while the oil is spilling into the golf. what i wonderful world we would have, if everyone would just look after himself!
If you guys think that being concerned about particle emissions and their effect on health in our large cities, and being concerned about noxious chemical release into the environment, and being appalled by the level of road traffic deaths, on a global basis in excess of a million a year, is in some way having a socialist world agenda for world domination, you are nuts. Tin hatters.
Being concerned about all these things is just plain common sense, wanting to have a better quality of life, less risk of death or maiming. Liking, perhaps, to hear birdsong in the mornings.
It has nothing to do with AGW, it has nothing to do with fascism, it has nothing to do with socialism. It is the ordinary concern of people since history started for living in a safe and pleasant environment. AGW is a different thing altogether, its an hysterical monomania.
I am sure that when the UK embarked on the great London sewage cleanup project, back in the 1850s, there were similar voices crying that people who did not want to walk through shit and drink shit-polluted water from the Thames, and risk cholera outbreaks, were all dreadful conspirators seeking to limit the sacred freedom of the UK citizen to excrete where he liked, and dispose of his ordures as he wished, without any intervention from the evil central government…
Complete nutters!
I tend to think that people have joined the bandwagon, OR NOT, largely because of their pre-existing attitudes. CAGW largely fits well with an environmental/left world-view. If it had initially fitted well into a right wing world-view then it would have been embraced with as much fervour by the right.
Not many of the believers – or non-believers – have really looked at the evidence with any great objectivity before coming to their position on the subject.
One of the major lurches of AGW into the mainstream was when not just governments realised the potential for taxes and control – but also that businesses, financiers (not known for their left-leanings) and the politicians in their pockets, realised that here was a goldmine without the tiresome drawback of having to mine gold.
I don’t think that the left or right can really hold their heads terribly high.
“The left will kill this country, the current ‘alleged’ right will too. People bashed Bush for all kinds of reasons, in my opinion, his biggest downfall was that he couldn’t resist the money. Besides massive increases in government education and military, there was the pre-planned bailout of central banks. It was pre-planned too. He and the allegedly conservative congress, couldn’t stop the spending.”
Everyone that commented about Bush and the right should re-read this quote. I think Jeff would agree that Republicans of the past decade have been ‘allegedly’ right, certainly in the economic sense.
Commenting how terrible Bush was and how Republicans screwed things up doesn’t negate Jeff’s point. Our government moves farther away from protecting the individual and closer to ‘societal good’ every passing year, whether there is a D or a R in charge. The Dems just do it more quickly, in general.
“really a funny comment, while the oil is spilling into the golf. what i wonderful world we would have, if everyone would just look after himself!”
Even with all the government regulation and safety assurances, there IS oil spilling into the gulf. How exactly did government help this situation? Government is only a group of people that everyone (or at least the majority) recognize as having legitimate power within a certain territory; those same people and the same equipment would have been used to fix the problem if they were ‘government’ or not. And BP is building the containment dome, and they will pay for clean-up.
A bunch of random thoughts: The true deficit is over 150 billion/month. Last year the official deficit was 1.4T, but the total debt went up by 1.85T, due to “off budget” accounting (like Enron). The gov hid more than 450 bil, greater than W’s yearly deficits, in just one year. This year, the total (real) deficit may top 2T.
Clinton never had a budget surplus. The total debt went up every year. Again, Enron-style accounting. (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np)
Back in ’86 it made sense to look into the possibility of human caused climate change. It was a good call. We’ve learned a lot since then.
GHWB pushed Kyoto? I thought al-Gore flew his 747 (Air Force 2) to Japan for that. And “W” decided to drop the whole thing. Guess I was mistaken.
Wall Street is nothing more than a bunch of greedy bankers. Who’s sole objective is to make money. They didn’t start loaning money to people who couldn’t pay it back, they took advantage of the situation when Congress forced them to make such loans.
“Socialism” is government control of the means of production. Like owning car companies. Or health care. Or everything else, when Cap & Trade is forced through, by legislation or regulation.
Rant on, Jeff. It’s worse than you think.
Keep the rants coming Jeff…poetry to my ears. My wife runs away when I do it, so I’ll put mine here:
Marshall McLuhan said the medium is the message, Noam Chomsky says the media manufactures consent…It’s hard not to agree. The acceptance of CAGW “theory” has been headline driven. Many politicians, governments, educators/students, broadcasters, publishers, authors, journalists, economists, environmentalists, celebrities and bloggers seem certain of AGW catastrophe…Violent weather, coastal flooding, drought, starvation and species extinction of historical extreme, if not now, soon. Such is the power of media…reality is the perception of what matters. With breathtaking conviction we (the public) believe what we are led to believe even if it is incapable of happening.
Global cooling follows global warming as the night does the day. When we breathe we exhale CO2…we are not causing climate change.
UK has just had a General Election. The “Greens” (who are straight from the AlGore Church of the Faithful) will no be trumpeting that they won their first seat.
The reality is rather different
Conservative 10,592,258
Labour 8,509,376
Liberal Democrat 6,751,786
Green 279,279
British National Party 556,945
Whoops #39 Fat fingers!
What I was going to say is they polled 1% of the total vote and about half that of the British National Party- a bunch of unreconstructed Fascists who idolise Hitler and want to kick out all Immigrants.
As I have asked before “Why do these guys have any credibility. Why to the main parties scamble for the supposed “Green Vote”?
Or is it simply that green issues are a fig-leaf for increased taxes?
Ably assisted by her advisor Viscount Lord, umm, Monckton, they came up with humanly caused global warming to enlist support…
Damn … and here I thought that a couple of friends of mine started the whole thing as a prank on a university BBS back in the late 80s.
The left will kill this country, the current ‘alleged’ right will too.
Clinton, Bush both allowed Wall Cheat to be totally dominant and actually running the financial system in the USA.
My 2 cents.
It goes back to the early 1970s and Peak US Oil. The US economy floundered in response until Reagan, O’Neill and Greenspan started using debt (through monetary policy and federal deficit spending) to fuel economic expansion – a process that has continued unchecked and grown exponentially (except for a brief period in the late 90s) ever since.
Wall Street has some responsibility, but not all. The elephants in the room, which are completely ignored in the latest ‘reform’ bill, are Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They are, in fact, creatures of Congress and their policies, ordered by congressmen like Barney Frank, were very high on the list of causes of the crisis.
The will to power, especially among politicians, is very strong, so in that sense D or R or left or right often becomes secondary once they ascend into a ready-made position of great power. The philosophy of the libertarian / conservative recognizes that government must be limited as the tendency of the individual is to take advantage of such a situation. The left believes that if only the “right” ones are in power big government is the best solution.
Here is where there simply is no evidence. There is no evidence that big government does things better, no matter the original intentions. The attractions of power, cronyism and corruption are too great. And reflected in as great incompetence. In a limited government, each proposed constraint on liberty would be debated fully and openly with gravity. Now, that is all dismissed as inconsequential – let’s move on – and spend hours micromanaging to the extent of debating for hours that baseball players can’t use chewing tobacco!!!!!
I just watched the latest Stossel on Government Bullies:
http://usaguns.net/patriots/stossbull.html
It’s not even his best (he’s done quite a bit on climate change as well). But I don’t have links to them. But he’s becoming one of the most important news figures around – I haven’t even heard yet of him being called names.
As far as climate change goes, originally everyone was on board, even “evil” Inhofe. He says himself he was a warmist (why not?) until he started to investigate.
Bush did many things to try to show he was compassionate (usually pandering to the Kennedy crowd) – No Child Left Behind, TeenScreen, many others. The road to hell is paved (you know the rest).
The “right” is naturally skeptic when it comes to loss of liberty, you must PROVE to me that enslaving me – and by extension everyone – is worthwhile. The “left” embraces big brother. It’s as simple as that. Many don’t fit the stereotypes, many are outliers, many square pegs in round holes. But the generality can still be made – I see it among the people I personally know. While high taxes are a manifestation of that – and there comes a time that enough is enough – it’s often more what the tax represents that is intolerable.
I’ll give you an example, and I’m scared to death for the vilification this will bring down on me. I’m sure you will feel I’m defending pure evil. It’s the most politically incorrect thing one could bring up. After all, the “science is settled” and the “consensus has established” as “everyone knows…”
The demonization of smokers. It is their own high taxes being used to harass, bedevil and ostracize them, with the approval of well-funded zealots and “dogooders” everywhere. On top of that, they are denied even the freedom to assemble, with applause all around. Outright hatred is being promoted. The last huge tax raise was to fund the expansion of the State Children’s Health Ins. Prog. With 2400% increase on roll your own! The One proudly signed and took all the credit for “saving the children.” Not one word or warning or thanks to those that would be paying, who found out in many cases only on the day it went into force, April Fool’s Day 2009.
Here’s the latest – a proposed amendment to BullyCare by the worst of the antis (ASH) to surcharge smokers but not obese (or any other risk takers). Look closely at the wording:
“Fewer than 20% of adults are smokers, and only about 13% smoke daily, while about 33% of adults are obese, and another 33% are classified as overweight. Thus the number potentially affected by a smoker surcharge is far smaller, and, because smokers are concentrated largely in the lower socioeconomic classes, they are less likely to be able to effectively object. A surcharge on the obese would arouse objections from a much larger segment of the population, including many people with considerable influence.”
Oh, they do plan to “get” the fatties next. (except the head bully of the organization is a fattie himself).
Since so many people just don’t like the smell (the natural result of years of propaganda and the power of suggestion), everyone “goes along” never thinking of the assault on liberty that is at stake. Never realizing “First they came for ….. and I did nothing, then they came for …..”. Well, I guess you know the rest of the saying.
To sum up – whether it’s right or left – it seems there is a certain percentage of every population that wants to control, you experience it daily on a very small scale, and then you read or see the news. There is a much larger percentage of those that never occurs to – they really don’t get why they are constantly under siege, they mind their own business (except, of course, everyone always wants to hear the latest about their friends). But that small percentage never rests – organize, organize, organize – in shifts if need be, to keep the screws tightening.
Tom Fuller, when you make the above statement, I would hope that you realize that the actions you use as examples would be considered left wing (more and bigger government)regardless of the parties making the initiatives. Threads like this one make me appreciate my view as a libertatian and not some partisan hack defending the indefensible.
Excellent post Kendra. Completely agree.
Tom Fuller, when you make the above statement, I would hope that you realize that the actions you use as examples would be considered left wing (more and bigger government)regardless of the parties making the initiatives.
yes, Bush with all his left wing policies…
sorry Jeff, but it was very hard to get sanity into comments, after your completely insane main post above. but what your readers do, is still beating your rant by miles!
Thanks, Jeff, and to all of you for venting here.
If our governments survive, it will be because people like you had the courage to speak out.
That knocking sound in the background comes from the knees of politicians and consensus scientists.
With kind regards,
Oliver K. Manuel
Emeritus Professor
Nuclear & Space Science
Former NASA PI for Apollo
#46, I’ve already said my piece but I agree with Kenneth, more and bigger government is not right wing. I never considered W a conservative, just better than Gore and Kerry. That’s the reason McCain lost, he wasn’t a conservative either.
Jeff,
for an interesting insight into the politics behind climate change advocacy, can I suggest you and your readers peruse “The New Commandments of Climate Change Strategy” recently published by the Green Alliance here:
http://www.green-alliance.org.uk/grea_p.aspx?id=4841
And yes, they really do call them “Commandments”. It’s written by the Green Alliance’s Stephen Hale. Mr. Hale is a former special advisor to the UK government and was also (according to his Wikipedia bio) active in SERA, an organisation which has apparently become shy about using its full title – the Socialist Environment and Resources Association.
The Commandments seem to me to be the rambling, elitist, onanistic fantasies of a rabid socialist who dreams of a world ruled by righteous philosopher kings who have Understanding. Meanwhile, the masses, who infuriatingly refuse to follow The Path, have simply been deceived by evil Daemons and will return to The Fold once The Truth has been Revealed to them by their Kings. It’s a blueprint for world government by a small elite while the proles are kept in check with propoganda and brainwashing. Sickening. IMHO.
AngusPangus
Thanks for the interesting link.
Green zealots such as Mr Hale are prime reasons why I don’t give money to organisations such as Christian Aid and Oxfam-both of whom he is very active with. This type of green political advocacy found its way into UK politics via the Labour party and the language used is remarkably similar to green PR agency Futerra. They have been trying to brainwash UK Citizens with green messages using Govt largesse (hopefully to cease following their defeat in todays election.)
The US has been at least 2 years behind the UK in this sort of climate advocacy, but with your powerful lobby system the pupils will soon overtake the teacher. Time for another vent Jeff. Am I being naive in wishing Charities would stick to their core business?
Tonyb
Following my post 50 above, I googled Steve Hale and came up with this. Anyone like to take a leadership course for a sustainable future, with teaching from all the usual suspects including Futerra, The Guardian and the BBC plus tuition from Mr Hale himself amonmgst many others?
Click to access Masters_Prospectus_2010-2011.pdf
The green tentacles are very widespread and insiduous in the UK and funded by a great deal of public money.
Tonyb
Nick Stokes said:
You timeline is undoubtedly correct, but, I was alive way back in ’92, and I don’t remember any of the climate stuff. I was looking for a job having gotten the boot in 2001.
The thing that brought my attention to the climate situation was when I surfed across a C-Span Congressional Hearing some years later, and this was my introduction to Steve McIntyre and Michael Mann.
At that time the subject was obviously in the political sphere.
The physics has not changed, nor have the scientific scenerios of the AGW advocates changed. I believe that the total audience has increased.
The environmental and conservation movement were always about competing economic systems. There is just no way so broad and fundamental an issue can avoid it. In the 20’s and 30’s it was already breaking down along public versus private rights (Ding Darling on the right and Bob Marshall on the left) in land and wilderness management.
Essentially agree.
UK overall tax ‘take’ in round figures £500 billion/ yr. Government spending £700 billion!
Our inconclusive election suggests a crisis in the next few months as ALL the politicians seem to believe in big government and AGW.
Very depressing.
SOD @ Post #46
SOD, were you in isolation from 2000 to 2008. Bush did some very left wing things starting with nation building in Iraq. Deficit spending and increased government spending which were huge under Bush until the Obama administration went completely nuts on spending. No Child Left Behind (which is one of the few government programs that liberals have deemed as a failure – probably because they can lay it on Bush and not themselves) which put the federal government very much further into local school functioning. Unpaid mandates for Medicare prescription subsidies that again were huge until the Obama administration bested that with the latest health care bill. Bush bailed the banks whether they wanted help or not and that again was huge until Obama bailed everything in sight and including the fed Freddie darlings.
Maybe Bush did not live up to the Obama standard of bigger government but it was not for trying. Oh and by the way, what has the Obama administration done (not just talked about) that has unraveled what Bush did. Patriot Act anyone?
What I found rather strange was that all that Bush spending and his push for bigger government was deemed bad by the liberals and the liberal intelligentsia and I almost thought that they had seen the light or at least some of the problems of deficit spending, nation building and other assorted intrusions on our lives by big government. I knew much of their reaction was to demonize Bush for political gain, but I was rather surprised to see how partisan and insincere their concerns were. Ah yes, partisan politics aren’t they great?
Nick Stokes: Basic physics says that increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere lead to higher temperatures, approximately 1C per doubling, all other things being equal, which they are not. Pretty much everything else in the CAGW edifice, from feedbacks to rising sea levels, is speculation, much of it politically inspired.
55-
Kenneth, while I agree that they do indeed seem to deem it a failure so that they can blame Bush for yet another thing, to say they “can” do so leaves the impression that they can do so not because they have no problem with distorting the truth, but because the responsibility lies entirely with Bush. I know this is likely not what you intend, but to set the record straight, Democrats are equally culpable for the NCLB failure: Ted Kennedy anyone?
David S #56, says “Basic physics says that increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere lead to higher temperatures, approximately 1C per doubling”
Sort of. What it really says is that increasing levels supply a heating effect. Whether this heating will lead to a rise in temperature is a quite different issue. As you can see from the fact that my morning coffee supplies a heating effect, but does not lead to a rise in my temperature.
Someone very close to me has been on unemployment for over a year and a half. Someone who never seemed lazy before. A person who got a job within a couple of months of losing her old one and then quit after 2 days because she didn’t want to drive 20 miles. Kelly Services stopped looking for her because she turned down so many jobs. Granted, the jobs were “beneath her”, less money than she made before and whatnot, but substantially more than she is sucking in on fun-employment. Very few of us would stick a gun in someones face and rob a liquor store. But game the system for a 2-year paid vacation? I’ve heard the rationalizations. Ripping off a nameless, faceless, and bloated bureaucracy is a lot easier. And that is why socialism always leads to hell, and it is where this country is heading.
America is nothing special when it comes to our people and resources. Anyone who thinks it can’t happen to us is delusional. We were a superpower for one reason. A small group of men were smart enough to write a constitution who’s main purpose was to limit the power of the government it created. It is a testament to their foresight that it largely succeeded for 200 years. The result was a society that rewarded hard work, initiative, and personal responsibility. Punished laziness and recklessness. And didn’t enable leaches. The result was freedom and prosperity. Alas, it looks like the part is over.
Jeff: I’m with you 100 percent. Quite some time ago, my wife took a “survival skills test” and her score was: “Stay in Gotham City under wraps.” When I see the leftist “dogma,” I automatically think of this. They don’t have a clue about the workings of the real world. Most would starve to death in a week if you put them in the wilderness with no supplies. Most are not evil, most are probably well-meaning, but most are really, really stupid about reality. And yet they bill themselves as the intelligencia. Go figure!
Matt Y. – I’d blame her for not accepting a job “beneath her” rather than blaming socialism. Yes, the system could definitely be improved so people can’t rely on unemployment for so long. There’s no reason I can think of someone should be able to get unemployment for 2 straight years. I think unemployment in general is a good idea to allow people to stay on their feet and find a new job. Especially earlier in peoples’ lives when they haven’t had the opportunity to save up for a rainy day. Agree with your thoughts on the US though.
Stokes, 10
“The science hasn’t basically changed since then. It’s only in the minds of some that standard physics has become a leftist conspiracy.”
Oh, Comrade! You really, really went overboard there!!!
22, Michle: You sir/ms are totally naive, IMHO.
29: Scott B:
“At least the liberals are more honest about spending money we don’t have.”
PUHLEEEEEEZE!!!! Just how the HELL can you come to that conclusion, in light of the current budget deficits and overspending? Are you drunk?
31, sod:
“of course following the advice given by the absolute majority of scientists involved in the subject, is a evil act, that can only be compared to the worst phases of history.
this logic is brilliant.”
As is your “logic,” LOL. Can you show some “absolute majority?” No.
sod, 33: comment needs to be rewritten, due to typos. Also, what is your point?
Michele, 34:
“If you guys think that being concerned about particle emissions and their effect on health in our large cities, and being concerned about noxious chemical release into the environment, and being appalled by the level of road traffic deaths, on a global basis in excess of a million a year, is in some way having a socialist world agenda for world domination, you are nuts. Tin hatters.”
See 62 and grow up. Do you really think we can spend 10,000/lb to control “fine particulates,” and still have an economy, when China and India are not spending a cent. Typical stupid liberal comment.
Sorry, Jeff; I’ll shut up now, but I’m just sick of reading all these absolutely naive comments from some of the folks here. I see the same crap in the local papers, and on the Obama TV networks all the time.
O.K., I can’t stop just yet; just one more comment/question for the naive libs: If you liberals claim to be rational beings, please explain to me how you think you can destroy capitalism in the USA (Big Oil, Big Timber, Big Steel, Big Cement, Big Coal, etc.) and still have a stock market, in which your damn retirement funds are invested? Do you really think you can invest everything in Big Government? Do you have ANY clue as to how you will retire, if you trust Big Government? If not, please watch Greece.
“all will be lost in one hour”
but what hour? earth hour, solar hour? galactic hour?
I weep for the loss of what was hour for fathers worked to build a life for us!
Greek is a warning. Shows what happens when faults (social) promises are made!
Tim L
George Carlin on saving the planet
This is a shorter treatment of a very complicated and scary subject I tried to address in the essay linked below. ~Bob Hall
The Coming Collapse of the American Republic
http://tartanmarine.blogspot.com/2010/03/essay-coming-collapse-of-american.html
I retract my Carlin video, only because after watching more clips, he appears to have become far more radical and delusional with age.