I’ve been contacted by several reporters over the last few days asking what was going on with the seizure of Tallbloke’s computers. I have responded to each by email pointing out some of what seem to be obvious facts in the DOJ case and then adding that they (the reporters) are looking into the wrong crime. I tried to keep the tone nice but wasn’t always sucessful. Several reporters asked me about why I thought it wasn’t a crime to release the emails, to which I replied, we didn’t do it. We simply run climate blogs. It may seem like an excuse to some of the less informed, but there is actually no mechanism for us to prevent the release of these emails. Since we cannot prevent it, how is it that we are suspects in the act itself? Yes, I know they told Tallbloke that he wasn’t a suspect, but does anyone really believe that? Police say crap like that all the time. It keeps the suspect calm while they investigate him.
Of course the police know that it is intimidating to enter a persons home and take all of their personal information but let’s think about this for a moment. Michael Mann who is largely government paid, has been caught colluding with Phil Jones and others to hide data from the IPCC in order to make a stronger than actual case for unprecedented 20th century warming. And by caught, I mean really really caught. Instead of actually looking into his other emials, on his government funded computer, they hold multiple completely fake investigations and clear the whole CRUe. They didn’t go into Mike or Phil’s houses and check their personal computers to find context, instead they go to an anonymous bloggers house and take his machines telling him falsely that he is not a suspect.
What information could they possibly get from an innocent blogger who simply writes skeptically about bad science in climate that they couldn’t get from WordPress – the blog host? There is only one thing I can think of, personal communications with the perpetrator. Tallbloke is either a suspect in collusion with foia.org OR they want him to stop blogging. Of course so are the rest of us on that list in the letter from the US DOJ, and I’m sure a few others are suspects who aren’t on the list.
“No Jeff, you guys are evil deniers.”, the advocates write. “You are complicit in the release of the emials. ”
To which I reply — Ok geniuses, tell me how to stop it!
A full twenty five people had downloaded them before I noticed the link and over 160 had downloaded by my first post which was the first on the internet tilted Climategate 2.0. Note the clever title I gave it. I’m sure that the name was illegal somehow. What should I have done instead? Phone the internet and tell it to stop!
My guess is that the police are likely not happy about having to investigate fake crimes. They know these simple facts about internet information very well and unlike the biased media, they can read hide the decline and understand the context quite well. See, the police ain’t stupid. They are used to being lied to and when the climate boys tell them – out of context – it requires a personal interpretation by the investigator to determine whether the suspect is telling the truth. Yes, everyone is a suspect to them. Of course they do have to follow orders from the boss. Have you ever wondered why the Climategate 1 release required the highest and most political levels of the UK police to investigate?
Anyway, I sort of gave an earful to the various reporters that contacted me. I even quoted one guys stuff back to him asking how the emails could be out of context 8 hours after their release when nobody could have possibly read them in that time – let alone attempt to put them all ‘out of context’.
Lies and obfuscation. So the Sara Reardon, from the AAAS who wrote originally in her Son of Climategate post – “There’s nothing really new in a second massive cache of e-mails” – on the actual day of their release which was weeks before anyone could have actually read them, got a bit of an earful from me. She made a far better article from my email which can be read here. Still I think Sara may have a good idea of what is actually going on and her questions reminded me of something which she linked to that Congressman Markey wrote on the 22nd – the day of Climategate 2.0. In the quote, Markey is such a nutjob that he actually compares climate talks with nuclear arms talks. HIS bold, my red.
“This is clearly an attempt to sabotage the international climate talks for a second time, and there has not been enough attention paid to who is responsible for these illegal acts,” said Rep. Markey, who is the top Democrat on the Natural Resources Committee and is the co-author of the only climate bill to pass a chamber of Congress. “If this happened surrounding nuclear arms talks, we would have the full force of the Western world’s intelligence community pursuing the perpetrators. And yet, with the stability of our climate hanging in the balance with these international climate treaty negotiations, these hackers and their supporters are still on the loose. It is time to bring them to justice.”
Having had my say by email, Sara wrote a more accurate article than the original where she quoted me:
In an e-mail to Science Insider, Id, the U.S. blogger, said that he had not been contacted by DOJ, but said he would find such a raid intimidating and questioned what the police hoped to find. “The only things they could find on Roger’s computer that they can’t get from WordPress (our collective blog host company) would be direct communications with the FOIA group which I have not had, and I am certain that others haven’t either,” he wrote. “The link was dropped on our blogs by an unknown person and becomes public the moment it is dropped. There is no mechanism for us to prevent this kind of thing. … We are simply climate bloggers who got a link showing the corruption of climate science in full view.”
I think every reporter asked me whether it was intimidating to have the Justice Department issuing legal documents for your personal information, watching others computers being confiscated by police on the other side of the planet and leftist congressmen calling for your collective heads?
Hmm, tough one.
Thou shalt not critique Climate Science™.
the Air Vent 
Well done !!
I doubt that despite what you told them about what/where the real crime is that surrounds this, that they will investigate at all.
Best of luck !!
Third snip for anyone this year Grzegorz .
You are in moderation from now on.
Excellent article Jeff. I spoke on the phone with Ms Reardon yesterday. I couldn’t say much about the things she wanted to know. I tried to get her interested in my science instead but she said that wasn’t her thing…
Thanks Tallbloke, hang in there. Grzegorz thinks its silly to worry about police raiding your house.
I don’t.
They went thatta way.
============
Pain Levels Rising. The Juke Box has already blown a fuse. It was a Rockola.
On second thought it coulda been a Seeburg.
In this time of turmoil and fear, it is easy to overlook the fact that good fortune often arises from misfortune.
The police raids on Roger’s computers have increased worldwide awareness of similarities between the AGW scam and the actions of Big Brother in George Orwell’s novel, “1984.”
http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/
The unfolding drama of Climategate allowed me to post messages of Hope and Good Cheer on PhysOrg.com to a world living in fear this holiday season:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-12-soyuz-rocket-military-satellite-payload.html
Today all is well,
Oliver K. Manuel
Journalists are asking you if you think it’s intimidating to have the DoJ look at your personal information?
No doubt, they’d also be puzzled if their sources were on the receiving end.
How do you become a “journalist” these days, anyway?
Hum….
Probably it is a good thing that Mr. Markey’s party no longer controls the US House of Representatives. He has no authority to do much of anything.
.
Since he will be 66 by the next election, I would not be surprised if he chooses to retire before 2014, especially since the Democrats will almost certainly not win control of the house any time in the next 4 years; he will be in the same position he is in now: not able to advance his agenda.
Jeff ID,
“It’s time to bring them to justice!”
Indeed it is time to bring these l*ing scu*bags (insert name of appropriate climate scientist and their political sponsor here) to justice and given Norfolk plods desperate recent activities I personally think it won’t be long now before that is the case i.e. that those who (at high levels within the US and UK science and political establishment) have been colluding in this CAGW scam will be brought to justice. IMO that’s why Roger’s ‘collar has been felt’ as thanks to FOIA certain people are now rather very nervous indeed – they know thatthe whitewash inquiry attempts at coverups have failed miserably. Speaking as someone who’s collar may also get felt soon, plod can look forward to zero co-operation from me. I’m a firm believer in never ‘turning the other cheek’ but rather in giving back as good as you have just received – measure for measure!
Roger (tallbloke),
I sincerely hope that the activities of these scumbags has not got to you or your family and does not effect your employment status in anyway. If it does (in any way shape or form no matter how minor) please sue the pants off them. I’ve followed the thread on CA that shows a photo of the ‘search warrant’ and I can’t believe how ludicrously amateurish it looks. It doesn’t even have the name printed on it of the JoP who authorised it. The only unique identifying reference no. on it (Magistrates Court Code) has been written in by hand so please explain to me how this constitutes a legal search warrant document when it could have been easily forged by any Tom, Dick or Harry? Why wasn’t anyone from West Yorkshire plod in attendance? Did they show you their warrant cards (assuming they where in ‘plain clothes’)? Why did they take your router? The fact that they did implies to me that they think you have been in direct contact with the ‘hacker’ even to the extent that he/she has visited your house. IMO they undoubtedly think you are suspect and that you have been directly involved in ‘the offence’. The are clearly on a fishing expedition. Get legal representation now! If they turn up at your door again, make sure your brief is with you and say nothing to them unless he/she is present. Under no circumstances allow them to conduct any kind of ‘off the record’ informal interview with you even when cautioned. You have nothing to gain from co-operating with them and most likely something to lose if you do.
Regards
KevinUK
Hey Jeff. First comment on your blog. A question actually, then a point. Have you set your WordPress account to send anyone’s first comment to moderation? (Looks like I am about to find out 🙂 ) Would you not then be able to send RC/FOIA into moderation just as you’ve done with an alien above, thereby preventing this person or group’s post from reaching the public without first being approved by you? Just askin’. Because, that may well be a question you and other bloggers would have to answer, if anyone besides me ever asks. Not that there aren’t plenty of other means for this person or group to release emails… All the best, and good luck.
@9;
Yes, that is the ‘Stump the Band’ question;
“How is my analytical investigation of government scientific activity any different from what an investigative reporter would do?”
and if that didn’t get any sentient response;
Why is it OK to go after a whistleblower via the folks who heard the whistle?
The (non-classified) material is now at least 2 years old.
Why would the government be so zealous to prevent the disclosure of their Achilles heel?
Inquiring minds want to know…
RR
Ron,
I wondered if anyone would say that. If I knew they were going to release more stuff with the same internet handle, I could have blocked the same email from here. Blocking people from changing handles is not possible – as TCO proved. I might be able to block an IP address but haven’t tried – that wouldn’t stop the proxy servers. Moderating every comment isn’t possible for time reasons and I have little inclination for that. We didn’t expect the link though and of course none of it would prevent FOIA from placing the stuff everywhere else on the internet. In my view, it isn’t my personal responsibility to monitor what others write and I avoid it as much as possible.
Grzegorz is the only other person I’ve done that too and I did it because he adds nothing to the conversation except random critique, then he vanishes. I don’t even beleive he knows he’s been snipped. This time there was a bit of name calling and stupid accusations and assertions. He deserves what he gets.
“I didn’t ring the bell, and threatening me won’t unring it.”
The bell had a few sour overtones, and I’m a guy who analyzes faulty bells.
The bell won’t sound any better by stopping me from dissecting the issues.
The bell is already cast and rung.
RR
RR
#10
He’s already pretty irrelevant.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/17/the-empty-chamber/
Only a matter of time before the on-line dictionaries start adding his picture to the definition of the word.
I’m not sure what all this fuss is about. I thought the e-mails were “nothing new”, and in fact showed our climate scientists acting in a thorough, proper, and professional manner with regards to the publicly funded climate science that they study. And they they were very polite and fair-minded, even with other scientists with whom they may have had disagreements.
Uh…right??
As a UKIP politician, I feel duty-bound, as a matter of public interest, to draw attention to the apparent lawlessness of the climate modelling community. Police officers should be reminded that if they persistently ignore evidence of wrong-doing allegedly perpetrated by climate modellers (I will not refer to them as ‘scientists’), as well as attempted cover-ups by other parties, they can themselves become accessories in any conspiracy to defraud. If they are not able to substantiate that they have investigated the claims made against climate modellers, those officers are liable to arrest for conspiracy to defraud. I suggest that the Serious Fraud Office investigate the alleged criminal activity of the IPCC climate modellers, as well as the deliberate campaign of misinformation that has been deployed in an attempt to curry favour with agencies of the state.
The “crooked cop” evokes images of a corrupt Sheriff in some podunk Alabama county or the NYC detective on the take from the mob. We are seeing something far worse, the wholesale corruption of entire agencies. Law enforcement’s mandate is shifting from protecting the rights of individuals to enforcing the interests of the state. Those interests includes lining the pockets of the political class and those connected. It’s an inversion of reality; the Climategate “crime” was foiling the state’s complex wealth transfer scheme, not to mention the planned vigorish for those running the show. We’re talking trillions of dollars here, no wonder they’re pissed.
Law enforcement is not your friend. This is not to denigrate most law enforcement officers as individuals, but the institutional mindset. One has much to lose and nothing to gain from cooperating with law enforcement, even if one is entirely innocent. I learned this the hard way. During an investigation, lying and deception are tools of the trade; it makes no difference if you are a suspect, a person of interest, or simply a witness. If law enforcement thinks deceiving you will further their interests, they will not hesitate. After all, they’re “just doing their job”.
A very good video, “Ten Rules for Dealing with Police”
The most direct comparison I can think of in terms of leakage was Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers.
An insider compiled a mass of documents extending back a decade or more on a long-running, highly controversial government operation of global impact and took it to the press.
The Papers were what they were – they were not reportage, they were not ‘spin’ except insofar as one could derive it from how Ellsberg selected what to include, and there was years and years of context.
In those days, for that issue, the reporters and the press involved stood up and withstood much legal heat from the government.
“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” — Orwell
I suppose they are now setting the stage for telling us that the warming has entered a new phase where it manifests as lower temperatures. The next few decades are going to be very difficult for them. Not only for the discredited climate “scientists” but for the politicians, as well. If CAGW goes away, why that means certain people on certain committees lose an “important” issue. No more polar bear logos! No more justification to keep a stranglehold on fossil fuels. No more incentive to waste billions on power sources that are destroyed in thunderstorms.
It may be worth remembering that it was the ‘scientific modelling’ community that built the financial models for non-prime mortage lending in the US…
Now you probably know this Jeff but I’ll encapsulate briefly the situation now, in Britain, for other readers.
Slowly, due to our subsuming into the belly of the EU superstate, by increment and particularly in recent years, 13 of them under a socialist government.
A Labour government, who followed to the letter, all absolute diktats from the Brussels commissariat, green energy + carbon taxes/AGW being one of its mainstay tenets by which the taxes thereof have fed the machine and also kept the corporate banks and global companies in easy ‘investment’ street, yes statists and corporate cronyism rules OK in Brussels. Gotta keep ’em sweet man!
The free speech which we once enjoyed has been deliberately, mendaciously and stealthily eroded, the population steadily infantilised, education dumbed down and the MSM has been mainly, [if not totally] silenced and stitched-up.
The 9/11 attacks and Islamic fundo’ threats have been a ‘godsend’ opportunity for the control freaks and micro-managing apparats who are completely unaccountable in the EU/quisling British government and their writ is large and growing:
‘power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely’.
Copenhagen, opened the eyes of the Barons of the EU hegemony, one world government was on the table and it so nearly came to pass, it failed because the one thing that these bastards do not control is, the internet.
I am of the firm opinion, that, there is more to come from the ‘unsub inside email man’, the ‘powers that be’ are vexed and sorely tested.
The British police, have changed their spots, once they were there to protect and serve the public, under 13 years of New Labour, subtly their remit changed and they became very much like their European counterparts, a gendarmerie and arm of the state – not apart [as they once were] but deep inside it.
Thus, in less than a generation, ‘our’ Police are no longer ours but belong to the State. If you are mugged, have your house burgled, the police will eventually roll up, days after the event. If you commit a ‘hate crime’ or threaten a government officer, then you will feel the full force of the law ‘tres rapidement’ with a knock at four am and we ain’t talking gentle rap at the bedroom door and breakfast in bed.
In the aftermath of Copenhagen and now with the release of the CG II, the state feels threatened, when the state feels it is threatened: it lashes out. Tallbloke is in the way, he’s lucky he ‘didn’t fall down the steps’.
We can’t have our climato-scientologists put to any more trouble – and “the law must be seen to be done” and by God – are we not being ‘done’.
“Little people who blog what we don’t like, are in the way of the state machine”, welcome to Britain 2011.
Markey was instrumental to the environmental justice (EJ) movements political ascendancy. EJ justifies sweeping away “civilization as we know it” as a response to the Climate Crisis . In Markey’s world view the climate gate emails are the equivalent to nuclear arms because they caused the same type of geopolitical disruptions. Climate Change has been used as a weapon — its nice to see Markey start to admit it.
@Edward Whilst I agree that the EU has an agenda entirely of its own, so to do the Westminster lobby interest groups in the UK. For example, I have witnessed the European Waste Directive (EWD) being ‘interpreted’ in the UK purely for the benefit of the incinerator industry group that had sponsored both Labour and Conservative Annual Party Conferences. Even the Daily Mail reported the local government minister having accepted ‘consultancy fees’ from the incineration industry which ran in parallel to the hikjacking of the EWD and the way in which it was imposed on local authorities. Conveniently, the husband of said minister was special advisor to the Health Secretary, so the health issues relating to incineration were ‘disappeared’. Said minister left the House of Commons, moving to the House of Lords as Baroness Armstrong, with a further post as chair of a major incineration industry group’s advisory board.
On the issue of climate lobbyists, we have witnessed in the city of Derby (UK) a sustained, politically motivated attempt to use climate campaigning to steer the political agenda. The campaigners, or lobbyists as I prefer to call them, now unashamedly state that they can see no particular problem with having an in-built preference for the Labour Party (I have it from them in writing). Disgustingly, they have been allowed, with the assistance of the local Labour MP Chris Williamson, to assert their influence in co-ordinating the campaign to save local train manufacturer, Bombardier. They, and the trade unions were portrayed by the media as co-ordinating a public debate of local politicians but it was that same group of lobbyists, together with the trade unions, that chose to invite representatives from all political parties except the one party, UKIP, that stands alone against the climategate travesty. So, Derek Clark, the region’s democratically elected MEP didn’t get an invite to the debate because he belonged to UKIP. Unsuprisingly, many of the so-called campaigners have a personal focus on profiting from climate change industries, aided and abetted by a media broadcasting corporation that has a proven and now acknowledged financial interest in that same industry sector.
Those who seek to bring the truth of this Orwellian nightmare to the mainstream, need to start behaving in a mainstream way. Write to your MP, your Chief Constable and your local media and demand that investigations take place into the fraud that is being perpetrated. Can I suggest that the bloggers get together and produce a bullet point list of allegations with links to the evidence? I stress that it should be the major points only and should take up no more than two standard letter-sized pages. It should be in a form suitable for mainstream media.
There’s more than enough evidence, now it’s time to get serious about marketing it.
See if this is a nuclear arms investigation, I think it’s possible the intelligence agencies could catch the perpetrator. If WordPress or some other server is keeping a record of all visits to a log, then the police could just take a look at all visitors to TallBloke, see how many also visited The Air Vent. If FOIA visited those sites without an anonymizer, even without posting, then his IP address would be on a list. It would then be a matter of if the police with masive resources can catch him. Perhaps after weeding out all the bots, the number of visitors to TalBloke is small enough that they could personally visit and search every user.
Look, the deal isn’t even “Climate Change” anymore, it is “Climate Justice”. You know who created that? Tyndall Centre did in a conference in September 2003. That would be the conference being talked about in email 4687.txt. It says that Tyndall working paper 23 will be the agenda for the meeting.
Click to access wp23.pdf
Now read that, particularly section 2. There you see the beginnings of “Climate Justice” and what amounts to a rough draft of COP17 and Kyoto2. That was 8 years ago.
This is absolutely not ABOUT the science. It is about a global policy issue and about USING the science when it can be used but it can just as easily be cast aside once it is no longer useful. This is about social policy, NOT about climate science. This is about “making a difference in the world” or “making the world a better place”. It is about using climate, when it can be used, to effect social policy. And you have your evidence of that in these emails. I believe that is what foia’s fundamental complaint is. Simply shoveling money to corrupt third world despots isn’t going to help anyone in those countries. Those people are still going to starve, still going to die for want of proper hydration when ill, still going to die from lack of vaccinations while their corrupt leaders line their pockets and the pockets of their cronies. This is NOT about climate and anyone who attempts to argue the science alone is missing the point. They can drop the science tomorrow if it becomes inconvenient and if climate switches in the other direction, they can suppress that information and will suppress it when it no longer becomes useful.
Jeff,
As usual you nailed it. Sorry to hear you have to try and explain the modern age to Luddite journalists. I have never seen a more naive and gullible group in my life.
Anyway, hope sanity returns and you and others are left alone. Either that or make you Emperor Of The Net so you could wield real power!
Finished up another long Cimategate post on the evolving excuses for the MWP. You can comment back here and I will drop by to catch up.
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/17745
I find it hard to understand such depths of denial and shifting excuses. But at least some (Briffa, Cook and Bradley) seem to have tried to not sink into the Kool Aid.
Cheers, AJStrata
I agree, trials should be popping up in every country. The CAGW crowd, under disclosure and liability of purgery, should be forced to show all their raw dat, their final “adjusted” data, their computer programs & notes, and their correspondence. That will scare the H out of them and finally collapse this hoax. You go Markey, you finally got something right.
Bill Yarber
I believe it is simpler than that. Just disqualify anyone exposed as having a bias by actively cheering for warming (“Roll on next El Nino!”) or showing AGW to be some sort of “cause” from peer reviewing papers. None of these people should be reviewing anything climate related. If I were a journal, I would not ask this discredited bunch to do a review as their bias is clear and if you invite one of them to review a paper, you actually get review by committee as they “backchannel” the paper and comments among themselves first.
The “gatekeeping” has to stop.
George,
Climate was firmly linked to the Justice movement by 1988 with the more formal declarations at the 1992 Rio Conference.
I’ve posted these types of comments elsewhere; apologies for the repetition but ..
Adopting the view of climateresistance, this whole “anti-carbon movement” is not a grass roots movement, but a top-down idealogical drive, with astro-turf demonstrators. The authorities are involved at the highest level, after all, they are the paymasters. Resistance to their urges comes bottom-up from the blogosphere. Hence the attempt to intimidate the bloggers with this one raid. Welcome to China! They make a mistake in this calculation, but then ….
Also, they do not want to find out the secret code so they can read the e-mails, they already know what’s in them. They want to track down the holder of the secret code to prevent him or her from releasing it … after all, the writers and recipients of these e-mails (and those in the seven-Z files) know what’s in them.
I do not intend to suggest that there is a secret cabal (the e-mails do that for me) but that there are assorted, even unconnected, interests all playing in the same direction.
Anyone with half a brain from The People’s Republic of Massachusetts knows that Markey is one of the all-time empty suits to ever hold a congressional seat. Howie Carr of the Boston Herald has some hilarious columns worth looking for.
This is in evidence in the climategate mails, too.
3550.txt is an email from someone claiming to be “Spiritual Leader of the Global Community”. In that document is this:
So you achieve world peace and prevent the creation of empires if you simply decarbonize and then put in a place where nobody accumulates “excessive” wealth because you take from them and give to the others (“distributive justice” as described in the Tyndall paper linked above).
This is a person ignorant of fact, though. We already had our “war for oil” and that was World War II. Japan attacked the Western powers in the Pacific for access to British East Indies (Indonesia) oil. Germany invaded Russia because it needed the oil fields.
We have the capability right now to ensure we don’t have so much reliance on oil, nuclear, but they won’t “let” us use that either through massive irrational fear mongering (more people have died from organic German bean sprouts and Colorado cantaloupe than from Fukushima Dai-Ichi power plants).
The world has just gone crazy.
0102.txt hilarious
Can I FOIA for Gregorz’s deleted comment? How can he ever regret his words if they’ve vanished into the ether? The emailers just wish they had ether powers like that.
=============
Very well said Jeff.
It’s interesting to note that some journalists who have previously been blase and lazy in their reporting are now doing a bit of a better job in their reporting and correspondence with you… I think some journalists have suddenly realized how serious all this has become…. By ‘this’, I mean intimidation by powerful bureaucracies protecting themselves from scrutiny and using the instruments of the state in which to do it…..And it gets into broader issues than just corrupt climate science and scientists….. In Australia at the moment we have our Labor Government doing inquiries into media and journalism that is basically nothing more than a witch hunt against the Murdoch press…. same goes for Britain.
…. However, it has become a double edged sword and now the Fairfax newspapers are under the gun for “hacking” into the Labor party database and writing stories about the names of the people that were found on the database…..
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/the-age-wins-injunction-against-police-seizing-equipment/story-e6freuy9-1226222710122
A bit of background…….This “hacking” has been known for a while now, but because Fairfax newspapers are a pro Labor party establishment, the facts were suppressed/ignored, until one of the people written about actually complained…now the police are doing an investigation.
It would seem that certain parts of our Western Bureaucracies have be abusing their positions and are hell bent on stopping people from asking questions or curbing their power, funding and privileges, and that for a while many “journalists” were quite happy, cheering and laughing that “enemy” journalists were copping it in the neck…. But the laughing is starting to choke. Abuse of power has no friends…. Those who know, simply feed the crocodile hoping to be eaten last. Appologies to Winston Churchill……. 😉
I note in that Daily Telegraph story, that the AGE Newspaper has got an injuction to stop police siezing equipment and computers…… Yet poor ol’ Tallbloke, an innocent blogger, gets the full 1984 treatment….. sigh.
Jeff: If you have a visit from the police, I advise you to call an attorney immediately. Then I would get hold of Chris Horner and ask his advice as to an attorney. He is an old hand at this and can direct you to a knowledgeable attorney. If you or Steve or Tallbloke need funds to hire a lawyer, I believe between all of us who relish these sites can raise enough funds to substantially help out.
Phil
Jeff, I am a small time blogger, and yes I agree about the difficulties that comes from trying to control who is posting and stopping anybody dropping a link.
In my case, I have the comments set up so that first time bloggers are moderated. Sometimes a mistake is made when I approve someone because the first time comments seemed benign. I dealt with the issue by revoking the right for the person to comment. In other instances I have placed the IP addresses in the block column :). Those comments end up in spam. It is tedious having to go through the spam and usually deleting all of them.
I am explaining this more for those people who suggest or ask about what can be done. The fact is that WordPress is actually quite limiting when it comes to moderating the comments.
Jeff: “Yes, I know they told Tallbloke that he wasn’t a suspect, but does anyone really believe that?”
I guess that I’m gullible enough to believe it. My guess is that they are trying to track back to the IP source for the files. They don’t necessarily think that Tallbloke is the source, only that his computers or WordPress may have traces of were those files came from. Of course if they found that the source was Tallbloke, which I doubt, then his status could change.
Jeff: “Several reporters asked me about why I thought it wasn’t a crime to release the emails, to which I replied, we didn’t do it.”
You can’t take the media seriously, Jeff. These are the same guys that considered Julian Assange a hero not too long ago. Also, it’s not a crime because the emails are public property. I doubt that there is any law protecting them from release.
Seriously Jeff? You’re seriously paranoid enough to think that it is an attempt to intimidate TB to stop blogging?
I assume your bunker is well stocked?
REPLY: I’m certain that they would like all of us to stop blogging (not just TB) but they certainly wouldn’t go to this extent to stop him or us alone. The intimidation is just a side bonus. That is rather the point though isn’t it… There really is only one way it makes sense, they want to know if he’s had direct communication with FOIA. Gold star for you for your quick ability to grasp the obvious.
Of course you get a red one for missing the point that most here already got.
Jeff, I deeply appreciate your insight and your role in the continuously unfolding Climategate drama. From my perspective, the drama started in ~1972 when experimental data first suggested that the Sun might be unstable.
I am confident that the final scene of this drama was foretold in ancient spiritual teachings, e.g., “Truth is victorious, never untruth.”
Could Shakespeare’s insight help us endure the seemingly endless journey to that final scene? “All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players.”
Comments from others would be appreciated.
Joshua falls into the pit he’s dug. He’s calling for a shovel.
============
Jeff,
I think you captured what best needs to be expressed to the media on day one of this fiasco when you clearly and succinctly posted,
“Why are they investigating the bloggers on the fraud rather than the fraud itself?”
It can’t possibly be stated any clearer than that and if the MSM isn’t able to dig into the background and determine what the whole story is all about…. Well then what’s the point in trying to talk to them at all?
I now have a new mantra and will repeat it often. Thank You!
Don
#32 so I am learning 😦
Notice the email in CG2 where Hulme is being invited to his local Agenda21 group to give a talk.
The UEA have made it clear where they stand.
“We hope this will result in the arrest of those responsible for distorting the debate on the globally important issue of climate change.”
We hope this will result in the arrest of those responsible for the theft of the emails and for distorting the debate on the globally important issue of climate change.”
New method of replying?
Have you not seen the long line of breathless posts in the “skeptical” blogosphere about the eco-Nazi conspiracy at play here? I guess that the ability to grasp the obvious is not as uniform as one might expect from a bunch o’ “skeptics.”
And you’re all over the place, Jeff – conflating climate scientists and the police under a conspiratorial “they,” concluding with certainty that TB is a suspect even though it’s entirely possible that “they” don’t consider him a suspect but believe that “they” might find evidence related to a crime on his computers.
Calm down. Breathe.
I’m sure that many on the other side of the debate wouldn’t lose any sleep if “skeptical” bloggers were no longer around, but that’s a far cry from the UK police being in cahoots with the socialist, communist, fascist, statist, authoritarian, evil, eco-Nazi AGW cabal to intimidate you and your buds.
And it would be obvious, anyway, that even if the conspiratorial link between the “climate community” and law enforcement existed such that the police would take this action with the cause of intent to intimidate you and your buds, this raid would be completely ineffective. It would have been easily predictable that the sense of victimization and noble-struggle-against-the-evil-empire mentality that drives some “skeptics” would only be further emboldened by the raid.
Why, if I employed the kind of “logic” that I often find at “skeptical” websites, I would theorize that TB himself paid off the police to stage the raid so he could get all this love from his “victimize” brethren, including the love in the form of money that is being sent his way as I type. Of course, being skeptical about conspiracies is one reason why I look askance at much of what I read from “skeptics.”
Joshua,
Yes, yes, we’ve heard it all before. It is all for our own good, and the good of the collective. blah, blah, blah. It could never happen to you.
I don’t control, dictate or hold ‘other’ bloggers thoughts any more than you do. If it helps you sleep to imagine that I hold their opinions, enjoy.
Ron–
All FOIA.org would have to do to get around first time moderation is to post some neutral sounding comment a day, week or months before the release one. Based on how it works at my blog, first time comment moderation doesn’t check IP; it only checkes the (name, email) combination. Determined trolls can alway deal with this and I’m sure FOIA.org could do. They might have to switch names for each release– but so what if the next release is from “Nancy” or “Joe”.
Blocking by IP isn’t particularly useful. I have more options than Jeff. I’ve just blocked “overplay.net” a $9.95/month proxy service because a name-changing sock-puppet troll is trying to use that (assuming I don’t have a typo in .htaccess…. which has been know to happen). I can do this in .htaccess and ban a whole range. But one mostly has to add these as the are identified and I think someone hosted on WordPress.com has to block each IP individually. (Overnet.net has lots of IPs. I can block the all with deny overnet.net. Jeff can’t. )
I guess we’ll all soon be talking in code on obscure ham radio bands, if we’re talking at all.
Joshua,
I often think Jeff gets a little too emotional and has a tendency to overreact. In this case I completely understand and he has my sympathy. If one were to apply TallBloke’s experience to themselves, the legal and financial realities are, to use your words, obvious.
You may disagree with Jeff and other skeptics, as I often do, but there is no need to be an a**.
c.w.
You may disagree with Jeff and other skeptics, as I often do, but there is no need to be an a**.
It’s all he has left.
Lucia,
Of course you are correct. What Ron, and others with equally good intentions, fail to see is that these suggestions give the impression that to forgo, to have insufficient, or failed counter measures is somehow taking part in a criminal enterprise.
Jeff’s argument does have soft spots; this is not one of them.
Conard,
I do enjoy a reasoned critique. Always have.
Jeff
Looks like your of to space – the new frontier – just kidding
“Here’s a new idea for how to deal with climate deniers: Blast them into space.”
http://www.grist.org/climate-skeptics/2011-12-16-new-approach-to-climate-deniers-launch-them-into-space
“Our biggest problem is to deal with the scepticism and denial of the cult-like lemmings who would take us over the cliff,” said Brown, a Democrat, eliciting cheers and laughter from an audience of roughly 200 policymakers, business, and activists. “The sceptics and deniers have billions of dollars at their disposal … But I can tell you we’re going to fight them every step of the way until we get this state on a sustainable path forward.”
frightened!! how do we deal with these d/heads?
What seems to be widely overlooked in all of this is the question that Delingpole raised in his early response to this i.e. What are they going to charge the leaker with if they do ever identify him? I’m not well versed on the state of whistleblowerr protection statutes in the UK, but from what I do understand there are at least some. Given the public funding and public interest involved in these matters there is no way, even under this strictest possible definition of “whistleblower”, that the person or persons responsible for these releases wouldn’t qualify.
Given the way crime rates have skyrocketed in the UK in the aftermath of their outlawing virtually all private gun ownership, and the police complain of not having enough resources to deal with it, to the point where reporting crimes that are considered “minor” won’t even merit an in person visit from a bobbie, how can they possibly justify the commitment of more than two years worth of valuable investigative resources to a situation where there is no real crime to charge in the long chance that they do succeed?
wikileaks and Bradley Manning – heroes
agw skeptics – time to head to Kinkos with all these Bills of Attainder
Dougieh said
December 18, 2011 at 7:36 pm
Evidently no one has told Mr. Brown that we don’t have a space program any longer.
Six of ’em, eh? My missus was once visited by a rather senior guy while I was away. He was there to do some explaining to me and called at our home unannounced. The wife asked him to take off his ceremonial boots at the door, like she asked all people with big boots. Then the cat crawled in them Then she told him I was not there.
Yes, it’s best to be calm and normal and not to question authority.
From other experience, it’s also very hard to keep the cool as Roger did.
EcoTretas reports the following from Pachauri:
“More laughter came when Pachauri joked that Branson could give climate deniers tickets on the aviation mogul’s planned flights into outer space. “Perhaps it could be a one-way ticket,” Pachauri said, smiling, “though I’m not sure space deserves them.”
Blowing up kids and adults alike, a UN program head openly laughing about sending those who disagree with you to oblivion etc… This stuff would qualify for hate speech should you replace “deniers” by any ethnicity.
All this only serves one goal: trivialization of the idea of murdering opponents in the mind of proselytes and this will be useful when needed. QED.
mooo moo moo moo moo moo mooo mooo moo moo moo
moo mooo moo moo moo mooo mooo moo moo moo moo moo mooo
Not saying anything original nor earth shattering, but all of this is very puzzling. In our country, where transparency if not in the moment, will definitely be a factor later on as is the case with almost everything controversial. Better to get it out now, rather than let it fester and explode. What should be worth investigating is why transparency, due to the publicly funded nature of this work and the potential impact it has on policies that will have a direct impact on the quality of peoples lives, is entirely lacking. That an anonymous individual(s) are compelled to do this act speaks volumes about the power of “the cause” in silencing any form of dissent. From a perspective on the basic method of science, this is a grotesque and ultimately non-scientific approach, where dissent is a part of the process.
Jeff – I don’t know how you keep it together sometimes and not just blow your top. You have my respect for all that you do here, and more so what no one here ever sees.
I know I’m coming in late to this, but I’d point out that entities like the New York Times will print classified information. And they can get away with it because they’re not the ones who stole it. However that does not mean Homeland Security won’t come in and seize computers to track down where it came from. That’s the situation I see Tallbloke in.
Them, Their, Those….
Seeing this type of language reminds me of Washington facing the British in Boston and referring to them as ‘Those People’,
Or General Lee after the Union Army needlessly shelled historic Fredericksburg and burned it to the ground spoke of the Union Army contemptuously as ‘Those People’
When your adversaries begin referring to you contemptuously in the third person, as appears to be the case here, you have probably reached a state of open civil war.
George @ #50: I have a bridge to sell that will put you beyond the reach of Agenda 21. Because some people say it’s a rather famous bridge, I’d rather not say which one it is nor give it’s price, but contact me if you wish to purchase it to protect your family from the dangers described in that video.
We are all very grateful, Ed, that this time the smart people figured it out right. All that former stuff was an awful mess, but in retrospect, necessary so that smart people could get it figured out right.
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